Loon Mountain Announces Expansion at South Peak

Jonni

Looks like they are adding 30 acres of beginner and low level intermediate terrain to South Peak to connect the Escape Route parking lots to the rest of the resort.

https://loonmtn.com/south-peak-expansion

While I don't ski Loon that much, I for one am excited about this as it's another point of entry to the ski area, and it potentially means there will be a better tie in to the town of Lincoln. Kind of a Western or European style setup to the ski area that it and the town would probably benefit from greatly.

ADKskier

and 200 more housing units will be after that. They keep working that way and its a good spot to add more housing Units, $$$.

newpylong

Boyne is kicking ass and taking names with their Northeast properties, that is for sure.

obienick

Full plan courtesy of LiftBlog:

IMHO this has to be one of the worst thought-out expansions ever.

The plan is to build a beginner/low-intermediate pod — with teaching terrain — as a new gateway to the resort but not including any services other than “guest services” … no lodge? no rentals? no food/bar?

This pod is now completely isolated from the rest of the mountain for those that its designed for. Cruiser has a significant sustained pitch of 32%. While Boom Run is longer, it doesn’t get you to this pod without installation of a second lift from the bottom of Lincoln Express to this pod, and it’s steepest sustained pitch is steeper: 36%. Neither would classify as low-intermediate. Compare this to the bread and butter terrain on the main mountain: Bear Claw tops out at around 21%. No way for beginners who’ve progressed off of Kissing Cousins/Little Sister/this new FGQ in this pod to get between the main mountain and this pod.

The lift will be a FG quad (Doppelmayr of course) with a loading carpet. ~2600’ x ~500’. This will be the longest fixed grip lift other than the old East Basin Double. As of this season, every out of base lift is now a high speed lift (White Mountain Gondola, Seven Brothers HSQ, or Kanc 8); this proposal breaks the Boyne branding of having great lifts. If Boyne can afford an unnecessary bubble 8-pack with all the bells and whistles, why not invest in a more suitable lift for the pod? Yes it’s short, but the clientele who ski at Loon and the types of skiers who will ski this pod will expect a HSQ.

And finally it appears there no easy way to access the new FGQ from the lots without taking one or both carpets up high enough to ski over.

The best part of this project IMHO is the 100% automated snowmaking system going in. This will free labor for the rest of the mountain and will allow rapid resurfacing in ever shrinking windows thanks to climate change.

ADKskier

I'm pretty sure this will not remain a baseless area. I'm sure This will be used like I said for an expansion of new home lots, another base lodge and another access point for the resort. They have a 10 year master plan and beyond. This is just a slice of the pie if you will.

newpylong

obienick;c-57547 wroteFull plan courtesy of LiftBlog:

IMHO this has to be one of the worst thought-out expansions ever.

The plan is to build a beginner/low-intermediate pod — with teaching terrain — as a new gateway to the resort but not including any services other than “guest services” … no lodge? no rentals? no food/bar?

This pod is now completely isolated from the rest of the mountain for those that its designed for. Cruiser has a significant sustained pitch of 32%. While Boom Run is longer, it doesn’t get you to this pod without installation of a second lift from the bottom of Lincoln Express to this pod, and it’s steepest sustained pitch is steeper: 36%. Neither would classify as low-intermediate. Compare this to the bread and butter terrain on the main mountain: Bear Claw tops out at around 21%. No way for beginners who’ve progressed off of Kissing Cousins/Little Sister/this new FGQ in this pod to get between the main mountain and this pod.

The lift will be a FG quad (Doppelmayr of course) with a loading carpet. ~2600’ x ~500’. This will be the longest fixed grip lift other than the old East Basin Double. As of this season, every out of base lift is now a high speed lift (White Mountain Gondola, Seven Brothers HSQ, or Kanc 8); this proposal breaks the Boyne branding of having great lifts. If Boyne can afford an unnecessary bubble 8-pack with all the bells and whistles, why not invest in a more suitable lift for the pod? Yes it’s short, but the clientele who ski at Loon and the types of skiers who will ski this pod will expect a HSQ.

And finally it appears there no easy way to access the new FGQ from the lots without taking one or both carpets up high enough to ski over.

The best part of this project IMHO is the 100% automated snowmaking system going in. This will free labor for the rest of the mountain and will allow rapid resurfacing in ever shrinking windows thanks to climate change.

Sometimes you have to work with the terrain you have.

Your concern in the first paragraph was answered directly in the slides, it of course will have base facilities just not all of them day 1:

"The Future
This project is the foundation for future development in this area. A new learning area, two surface lifts and a suite of facilities tailored around the learn-to ski and snowboard experience are also being planned"

This lift is not going to be the lift of all lifts in the final build out, they are looking at something from South to the Main Face and additional connectors. Going off of that, it would be silly to install a 2600' detachable when you get can get the same capacity out of a carpet loading FGQ with the appropriate amount of chairs. For comparison, that is the length that our double was at WB. If that was a HSQ you would be pulling the bar up as soon as you put it down. Not worth the expense.

My criticism would be with the trail arrangement if they are set in stone. I am really not sure what is the infatuation with creating little bits and pieces here and there. Just build them down the fall line without cutovers and connectors stitching them together.

NewEnglandSkier13

newpylong;c-57554 wrote My criticism would be with the trail arrangement if they are set in stone. I am really not sure what is the infatuation with creating little bits and pieces here and there. Just build them down the fall line without cutovers and connectors stitching them together.

That's what allows you to make ski runs more interesting. Trails built straight down the fall line are as boring as they get.

ADKskier

NewEnglandSkier13;c-57555 wrote
newpylong;c-57554 wrote My criticism would be with the trail arrangement if they are set in stone. I am really not sure what is the infatuation with creating little bits and pieces here and there. Just build them down the fall line without cutovers and connectors stitching them together.

That's what allows you to make ski runs more interesting. Trails built straight down the fall line are as boring as they get.

Honestly I feel like a patchwork of trails that meander with connectors and such is typically a classic New England style trail layout. Maybe going for that kind of vibe.

Quietman

Escape route already exists, so the others have to integrate with it.

newpylong

NewEnglandSkier13;c-57555 wrote
newpylong;c-57554 wrote My criticism would be with the trail arrangement if they are set in stone. I am really not sure what is the infatuation with creating little bits and pieces here and there. Just build them down the fall line without cutovers and connectors stitching them together.

That's what allows you to make ski runs more interesting. Trails built straight down the fall line are as boring as they get.

Perhaps the wrong choice of words. Obviously I don't mean directly down the fall line IE those Jiminy Peak boulevards. I just can't stand the little bits and pieces stitched together. I like longer contiguous runs, but they certainly need to sweep with the terrain. Meandering is the best.

NewEnglandSkier13

newpylong;c-57558 wrote
NewEnglandSkier13;c-57555 wrote
newpylong;c-57554 wrote My criticism would be with the trail arrangement if they are set in stone. I am really not sure what is the infatuation with creating little bits and pieces here and there. Just build them down the fall line without cutovers and connectors stitching them together.

That's what allows you to make ski runs more interesting. Trails built straight down the fall line are as boring as they get.
Perhaps the wrong choice of words. Obviously I don't mean directly down the fall line IE those Jiminy Peak boulevards. I just can't stand the little bits and pieces stitched together. I like longer contiguous runs, but they certainly need to sweep with the terrain. Meandering is the best.

Okay, I can agree more with that. There is definitely something special about long meandering trails with few intersections, such as Saint John at Big Squaw, Ivory Run at Whaleback, or MD at Dartmouth.

rickbolger

In a way it reminds me of the Jackson Gore thing at Okemo, it has a short lift to take you out of the base. This looks like it will have a lot more going on right at the base area. Agree that it seems highly likely they'll build services here eventually. Very first sentence says "project is the foundation"

It may not be perfectly sensible but you do the best you can with what you got. First time I was in Lincoln 1966 I was a little kid and there were giant piles of timber and it smelled horrible. The only thing that would surprise me would be if this venture failed.

If I were managing this, I'd make an area-specific ticket with a slightly lower cost, and promote it as family-friendly to get more market share. And work like crazy to get rentals and a cafeteria in place.

ceo

obienick;c-57547 wrote This pod is now completely isolated from the rest of the mountain for those that its designed for. Cruiser has a significant sustained pitch of 32%.

I haven't been to Loon in about a decade, but looking at the map, the steepest part of Cruiser, right below the end of the new quad, has the same pitch as new green-circle trail #2 which parallels it.

Snowmaster

It is a bit odd on it's own. And suffers further from all the original problems of the South Peak expansion being poorly connected to the main base, lifts, and trails. But as a starting point, there is potential there. The whole thing comes off like Sugarbush to me. You've got two sizeable, mighty fine daytrip-to-weekender size ski areas, but does not-quite-really connecting them turn the sum of those parts into an expansive
destination resort on the scale of Killington, Okemo, Sunday River? The way I see it, they need to get two trails across Loon Brook. A short quad from Pemi Camp to a point on L. Boom Run and a bridge across to feed in to the bottom of Kissin' Cousin at a minimum, probably with other, similar novice to low intermeidate terrain as this expansion. And a way from U. Bear Claw across to a windy novice trail roughly paralleling Boom Run.

My design rejects everything the designers of the original resort and Lincoln pod stood for. Trails should be narrower, farther apart, and have more wiggle, roll, and buck. They should be more scenic and take up less of the forrested acerage. Lifts should come down to one convenient base area level with the lodge and parking lot. They should not be uphill to get to, and they sure shouldn't be spread out each into their own odd little base area every thousand feet. The Escape Route trail is shown for reference; I doubt it will be really there in its present form if Loon goes ahead with the current plan. Oh, and I made some slight improvements to the entry and accessability. But here is a plan to get 14 butts every 8 seconds or so up and out of a more convenient and appealing base with (except to experts) terrain that is more fun and interesting, all so they can grossly underpower the 7 Brother lift replacement (and not make it go up to Crosscut, either!)) and keep the embarassingly low capacity gondola afloat for a few more years.

Cannonball

This finally makes Loon an easy walk from my house. So I'm all for it.

xlr8r

I'm pretty sure this is just the start of a long term expansion of south peak, an additional lift up to the summit, and base lodge will come in future years. See link for full South Peak built out sketched by the great James Niehues from 10 years ago.
https://jamesniehues.com/products/original-loon-2011-sketch

ceo

I assume it was for environmental reasons that they built South Peak with only a bidirectional lift connection to the rest of the mountain?

newpylong

Could be that, but there's a gorge/drainage basin with uphill going both directions between the two... trail connections will be tricky. Certainly going from the Loon to South Peak side.

Jonni

If I remember correctly there was a LOT of compromises that had to be made in order for South Peak to be built to begin with. Not sure if it had to do with environmental issues or Forest Service land or what, but I feel like the Tote Road Quad was the compromise that made it all possible. I honestly don't see that lift going away or there being any cutting of trails between the Main Mountain and South Peak any time soon.

Cannonball

newpylong;c-57580 wrotethere's a gorge/drainage basin with uphill going both directions between the two... trail connections will be tricky. Certainly going from the Loon to South Peak side.

^this. I've skied and hiked that gorge several times. I've never been successful at getting across to the other side in either direction. I've always ended up being funneled all the way to the bottom. Short of building bridges I don't see a viable way to make connecting trails.