Lost Killington trails

IBRAKEFORTBARS

So I was watching videos of Killington seeing how much has changed. I haven’t skied there since 1987 and I knew that parts of the then trail map were decommissioned, such as the original entry point of the Northeast triple and the top of Rams Head. Curious why the Rams Head summit was shortened; those trails atop had nice pitch to them. Also, were parts of Juggernaut removed and/or was it rerouted? As I recall it was a ten-mile long run back in the day. Sure wish I would have skied it summit to base when last there.

z1000307470

When ASC upgraded/shortened Rams Head to a HSQ, they were planning to connect to Pico. In order to do that, they were going to have another HSQ north of the current HSQ go to the peak of Rams Head to make the connection work. There was Killington a map somewhere that said this would be done for the1998-1999 season.

newpylong

I have been skiing there frequently since around that time frame so can fill in. Killington unfortunately does have lots of lost terrain, probably more than any other area acreage wise by a huge margin. I will break it down:

Ram's Head: In 1996 in ASC's infinite wisdom they decided to replace the Ram's Head double with a truncated HS Quad that stopped short of the final pitch. Their goal in doing so was to create a more Family-friendly mountain as a natural progression from Snowshed. Prior to this, there was only snowmaking on Header (under the lift). When they put the new quad in snowmaking was added to Timberline, Swirl (shortened) and a new trail was added called Easy Street that used portions of the old RH Road trail. The lift should have gone to the top, with a compression tower where the current unload is, and hugged Upper Header very closely, closing this trail permanently. This potentially could have alleviated wind concerns. RH Road and Horn (easier ways down) likewise should have been regraded and widened to accommodate the targeted demographic. This would have kept the mountain open in its entirety. The top is due to come back on maps depicting the K-Pico interconnect with a separate lift. The RH quad is due to be replaced with a 6 soon, most wish restoring summit access, but highly doubtful.

Northeast Passage (Lower Sunrise): This area was developed in the early 80s as an access point to what was going to be additional mileage in Parker's Gore (above Sunrise). Over the years Killington attempted to unsuccessfully develop this terrain and get access to water there. After this failed and they took over Pico, they traded this land for the Forest land between K and Pico for the interconnect. Moving on -after the '98 season the lift was truncated. They wanted to remove it entirely but the Sunrise Development went ballistic, rightfully so. The reasons for closing were: last to open, last to close, lowest elevation, slow lift, lack of use, proximity to Skyeship base, and the base area's original purpose was now voided. The trails below the Hawk's Nest mid-station unfortunately were some of the best on the mountain. There were steeps: Thunderball, the Judge, and Gold Dust. Noreaster was one of the best cruisers character wise. Can't fault them for doing this but it was a great place to escape so I personally didn;'t like the decision. Today the base lodge and many trails are still used for snowmobile outings. I believe they retained the land but there has been some encroachment in the Cherry Knoll area by more housing development. The towers still remain (mostly). All the triple chairs are in the woods at a undisclosed location. The water line from the reservoir still passes through there.

Juggernaut: The bottom section from the base of Bear Mountain down to the base of Skyeship went off the map after 2012. The very bottom portion down by Skyeship west of the lift actually was widened and had snowmaking installed (along with Touch Down) when Skyeship went in in '94, but the trail is abandoned and growing in along with the rest). Traffic from Needle's to Route 4 never reached the levels expected with the new lift. Access to Lower Juggernaut required you to walk to the end of the Bear Lot then put your boards on after crossing the road. There used to be a bridge crossing the road but it fell down and was never replaced. They took this off the map because it didn't get much use (who could find it?) and it was a drain on Patrol resources to sweep. Also Irene washed away another bridge on the trail proper further down Bear Mtn Road and it was not replaced.

The top section of Juggernaut (from Killington Peak) joining Falls Brook near the top of Sunrise went away a couple years ago when Killington banked this land with VT in trade for removing trees to put the South Ridge Quad and Snowdon 6 in. They banked more acreage than they removed so they can remove more trees without giving up terrain in the future. Similar reasons for giving this up. Drain to groom and patrol, and the trail had little value.

There are other shorter trails abandoned here and there, and others have been added over the years, but these are the largest ones.

Let me know if you have questions.

conrad

I did the bottom section of Juggernaut a couple of years ago without realizing that it wasn't a trail anymore. Slow going and wasn't much fun. Not because it wasn't clear, but because there was a lot of erosion and it wasn't groomed.

Way back during the ASC days there was one time we parked at Skyeship and we decided to do one last run all the way down Juggernaut. Got to the Killington summit around 4 o'clock and had a blast on the upper section. Walked across the parking lot and realized there was pretty much no snow on the lower section. Slow going after that and we hit a ton of rocks. Needless to say it was almost 5 o'clock when we were pulling out of the parking lot.

NELSAP

I only did Upper Juggernaut once, and regretted it immediately. The snow was groomed, but of the cold, "squeaky" variety. It was 11am and I was the first down it. It was a slug fest, often barely moving, some uphills, and a real sense of being out in the middle of nowhere, but not enjoying it. It seemed to take forever to get down it. The trail wasn't much more than a nearly flat road, losing only 300' of vertical each mile. No loss.

billb3

newpylong;c-46028 wroteThe top is due to come back on maps depicting the K-Pico interconnect with a separate lift.

Are there updated plans for completing the interconnect, or am I misreading?

newpylong

I was referring to the original plans. I do not know of any new ones.

billb3

thanks...got me excited!

ski_it

How about when they changed Big Dipper into Double Dipper and wipe out all the glades in there?

joshua_segal

ski_it;c-46164 wroteHow about when they changed Big Dipper into Double Dipper and wipe out all the glades in there?

The Big Dipper Glade still exists in addition to Double Dipper. Downdraft was such a beautiful glade and that was lost.

newpylong

Not sure about Downdraft (that predates me) but Big Dipper encompassed the entire area that is now Double Dipper and what is left of Big Dipper. It is a travesty what happened. The lift could have gone in on a narrow liftline without cutting DD. Not one of Pres Smith's wiser moves.

joshua_segal

newpylong;c-46166 wroteNot sure about Downdraft (that predates me) but Big Dipper encompassed the entire area that is now Double Dipper and what is left of Big Dipper. It is a travesty what happened. The lift could have gone in on a narrow liftline without cutting DD. Not one of Pres Smith's wiser moves.

There was an "anti-glades movement" due in large part to liability in the post-Sunday vs. Stratton decision. Killington wasn't the only one who closed or limited glades.

I wouldn't blame this decision on Preston Smith. That being said, I agree that Double Dipper is a soulless trail.

JMaul

billb3;c-46146 wrote
newpylong;c-46028 wroteThe top is due to come back on maps depicting the K-Pico interconnect with a separate lift.
Are there updated plans for completing the interconnect, or am I misreading?

Interconnect still has Act250 approval and they continue to apply for and recieve 5 year extensions.
https://anrweb.vt.gov/PubDocs/ANR/Planning/1R0813-2E/Supporting%20Materials/1R0813-2E%20Cover%20Ltr%20Jeff%20Temple.pdf

Can't find any of the maps from the original permit.

newpylong

joshua_segal;c-46167 wrote
newpylong;c-46166 wroteNot sure about Downdraft (that predates me) but Big Dipper encompassed the entire area that is now Double Dipper and what is left of Big Dipper. It is a travesty what happened. The lift could have gone in on a narrow liftline without cutting DD. Not one of Pres Smith's wiser moves.
There was an "anti-glades movement" due in large part to liability in the post-Sunday vs. Stratton decision. Killington wasn't the only one who closed or limited glades.

I wouldn't blame this decision on Preston Smith. That being said, I agree that Double Dipper is a soulless trail.

Double Dipper was cut a decade after that lawsuit and had nothing to do with the "anti-glade" movement. Not only was the glade not eliminated, but there were countless others in existence at the time.

The decision to cut the trail, and several years later add snowmaking and the Canyon Quad was simply because they wanted the expert's only pod you see today which mostly eliminated the need to ski to the bottom and overwhelm the K-Peak Double, which had the longest lines on the hill.

If not him, then who? He was about as hands on as they get with every decision at K under SKI Limited. This isn't to take away from his tenure, but sometimes bad decisions are made.