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Forums : NELSAP Discussion : NELSAP Discussion
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Lost Ski Areas

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eastern powder baby
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Posted: Nov 30, 2005 - 3:14 AM GMT

Yea Joshua Segal, that instance at my home mountain (Attitash) and Killington were the two places that sparked my interest on this subject. Thanks for the list.
igneousodc
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Posted: Nov 30, 2005 - 3:17 AM GMT

Is Marble Mountain (whiteface) a completely separate area from whiteface, or is it now part of Whiteface? I've seen some posts on here about the place, but never being to Whiteface, I'm a little confused as to where it is exactly located. It is crazy to think a resort with 2800 feet is now closed.

Also, Petersburg Pass, Taconic, where is that? Again, a 1600 foot resort that is closed is a shame.

I think we need to add Hickory, never been there, but have only heard great things about it. I think it is around 1,000 feet. I also understand it is not opening this year, but hopefully I have my facts wrong.

Also, Don't be puttin' my Bobcat on this list, it is still chugging along and I don't want it jinxed
joshua segal
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Posted: Nov 30, 2005 - 4:37 AM GMT

Quote:
Is Marble Mountain (whiteface) a completely separate area from whiteface,


Yes. ThatNYGuy, Russ, is the true expert on all Lost NY and he can give you his web site that has the full details on Marble Mountain.

Quote:

Also, Petersburg Pass, Taconic, where is that? Again, a 1600 foot resort that is closed is a shame.


Jeremy has it listed under "lost NY" but it is right on the border between NY and MA on NY Rt. 7 (Not to be confused with US 7).

Quote:

I think we need to add Hickory, never been there, but have only heard great things about it. I think it is around 1,000 feet. I also understand it is not opening this year, but hopefully I have my facts wrong.


Many see Hickory as NY's Mad River Glen. Let's hope that it comes back before anyone adds it to a "lost list."

Quote:

Also, Don't be puttin' my Bobcat on this list, it is still chugging along and I don't want it jinxed


We've certainly seen better run operations that haven't made it



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Joshua Segal
joshua segal
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Posted: Nov 30, 2005 - 1:22 PM GMT

Error in my last posting:
Petersburg Pass is on Rt. 2, near Williamsttown, MA - not rt. 7.

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Joshua Segal
nelsap
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Posted: Nov 30, 2005 - 7:33 PM GMT

Back to Tuckermans for a second as a "lost" area. Obviously, it is still skied on by 1000's a people each year, had a ski patrol of sorts, lodging, etc. Tuckermans is in a class by itself. Its definitely not lost, but is open in a very unique way.

That said, Tuckermans was and technically could be considered commercially lift served. I have a poster at my house called "Cog Railway Ski Trains to Tuckerman". This was from the 80s, and is the only reference I have to this happening. This is pre ski trains from last year. Also, you could technically hop a ride on the train, or the guided shuttles on the auto road with your gear, and hike down to Tuckerman's and ski.

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Jeremy Davis
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Posted: Nov 30, 2005 - 8:32 PM GMT

Many years ago, Al Reich, now head of Friends of Tuckerman Ravine, ran snowcat trips to the Mt. Washington summit in the spring after Wildcat closed. Skiers first skied the East Snowfields above the rock garden, then skied around the cone to the top of the Ravine, stopped for lunch which Al and his helpers brought along as part of the package, then skied over the lip (not me) onto the Headwall or down Hillman's Highway (me) and into the ravine. Then the skiers skied out to Pinkham if snow conditions allowed, or skied down as far as possible and walked out the rest of the way. I did it twice. I think that service lasted only a couple of years. So, technically, I guess, Tucckerman was snowcat-served for a while, but not now. Make of that what you will.
joshua segal
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Posted: Nov 30, 2005 - 9:16 PM GMT

To "nelsap" and "bill29":

My comment on Tuckermans was more intended to draw a reaction than a serious suggestion to add it to the "NELSAP" list.

After a page of other comments and replies on this thread with no body picking up on my Tuckerman posting, I was concerned that I slipped one by

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Joshua Segal
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Posted: Nov 30, 2005 - 9:20 PM GMT

Oh I know Joshua - its just interesting that the case could almost be made for it.

Jeremy

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Jeremy Davis
mapnut
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Posted: Dec 01, 2005 - 2:37 PM GMT

Quote:
Is Marble Mountain (whiteface) a completely separate area from whiteface, or is it now part of Whiteface? I've seen some posts on here about the place, but never being to Whiteface, I'm a little confused as to where it is exactly located. It is crazy to think a resort with 2800 feet is now closed.


Since Russ hasn't stopped by lately, here is the Terraserver image of Marble Mountain. You can barely make out the trails in the upper right corner, south of the road that looks like a needle eye. The developed area was only about 1000 vertical feet; I understand the 2800 involved skiing down the auto road. Whiteface is a couple miles further south.

Page title: Terraserver link
Bill29
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Posted: Dec 01, 2005 - 3:38 PM GMT

"My comment on Tuckermans was more intended to draw a reaction than a serious suggestion to add it to the "NELSAP" list."
Joshua, you got your desired result. Or, to be more concise, it worked.
jb66
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Posted: Dec 01, 2005 - 4:20 PM GMT

Marble Mt is a great place to visit if you are a NELSAP fan. The Atmospheric Research Center (the large building on the terraserver pic just N of the base of the old lift line-it was the old base lodge) has a great old map of the area, as well as some old pictures. The main lift line (there was also a small lift that went from the stream bed up to the lodge) has a clear trail up it, and you can still spot t-bar footings aling the way- it was the style that had an arch over the track, rather than a single tower holding sheaves. It must have been a tough ride-At the summit is the old counterweight. The trails are impossible to discern, though. If you continue up to the auto road, you will be on remnants of the old upper ski area that had a few tows. Nothing to see, though, although there used to be an old shack along the way, I recall.
ThatNYguy
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Posted: Dec 01, 2005 - 11:44 PM GMT

I came back to this thread to discovery a diverse "back and forth".
The Original Whiteface was a NYS big dollar wishing well. Wind in its upper stretches pulled the snow into what was to eventually become the Whiteface that is now.
Is Tuckerman's Ravine a ski area?

Russ
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jb66
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Posted: Dec 02, 2005 - 1:26 AM GMT

I knew Russ would come through...fascinating map and great pics, too.
joshua segal
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Posted: Dec 02, 2005 - 2:15 AM GMT

ThatNYGuy jumped in with:
Quote:
Is Tuckerman's Ravine a ski area?


Now that's what I call taking the bait.

To "nelsap" and "bill29": The gauntlet has been laid down

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Joshua Segal
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Posted: Apr 24, 1994 - 11:33 AM GMT

Fascinating map indeed, thanks Russ. Looks like you could ski from the upper area to the lower area via a trail along the ridge from Lookout Mountain to Marble Mountain, which is shown as a hiking trail on the topo. Probably there was an uphill section to get to the top of Lookout. I wonder if the "Slalom Slope" on the east side of Marble Mt. was what we call a glade.
igneousodc
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Posted: Dec 02, 2005 - 3:04 PM GMT

So, it seems that Marble wasn't really 2850? I'm assuming that is whiteface (looking at the map, to the left) and Marble there on the right. But Mapnut said Marble was a few miles to the south, so that got me confused a little.

Can you ski the trails at Marble now (backcountry)?
Isn't there talk of expanding Whiteface over that way?

I vote no as Tucks being a resort.

Good thread.

Mark
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Posted: Dec 02, 2005 - 3:43 PM GMT

I think only the main tow line is skiable, from what I recall, though I last hiked it about 7 years abo and there was a lot of thwack grown in then...it may be too choked now. Skinning up to the Wilmington Turn then skiing down the road would be cool, though the descent might be tame.
ThatNYguy
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Posted: Dec 02, 2005 - 5:12 PM GMT

Quote:
I vote no as Tucks being a resort.


Igneousodc, please don't create "clouds in the coffee". The question remains.... Is Tuckerman's Ravine a ski area?


Quote:
Good thread.


Stay tuned, it only gets better unless fear sets in.

Russ
joshua segal
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Posted: Dec 02, 2005 - 8:27 PM GMT

Let's summarize the arguments on Tucks:

1. People go to ski there - argument for a real ski area
2. There have been lifts there in the past - argument for NELSAP
3. The Cog Railway takes skiers up Mt. Washington - argument for Mt. Washington as a ski area - not Tuckerman.
4. In the past you could take the cograil to the summit, ski down the snowfields to the ravine and down the Sherberne and hitch-hike back to Crawford Notch - argument for NELSAP
5. No real commercial development - argument for non-ski area
6. A ski patrol - argument for "a real ski area"
7. Cult following requires "special exemption" from all categorization - argument for a real ski area.

More fodder anyone?

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Joshua Segal
eastern powder baby
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Posted: Dec 02, 2005 - 8:40 PM GMT

I just dont think that tucks is commercial enough to be a ski area; I always think of a ski area as a mountain with base facilities where the parking lots are... not miles away.

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