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Ski Mag "Ski East" ratings

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Author	Post
sledhaulingmedic Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Dec 20, 2002 Posts: 2872 Location:	Posted: Sep 20, 2004 - 12:28 PM GMT I guess you feel pretty strongly about that, Grout __________ "Don't piss off the locals, Don't make work for the patrol"

grout Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 15 Location:	Posted: Sep 20, 2004 - 12:30 PM GMT It is a readers poll" which translates to a resort's guests's poll. . Holiday Valley has over 500,000 skier/rider visits a season. In the past few years, it has installed 2 new detachable C-Tec Quads... a new quad beginner chair.. a million dollar building for their Learning Center and Children's program.. they have replaced or enlarged 2 of their on-mountain lodges.. they have purchased a new pipe dragon... improved lighting and snomaking annually.. as it said in the article, with only 750 elevation there is quite a variety of terrain and with 12 lifts and 53 slopes you can pretty much find some uncrowded area, even on the week-ends Tie that in to the village of Ellicottville is a mile away and you have a nice 3-4 day destiny resort , which is entirely family oriented. Give em try sometime.. nice area! Holiday Valley Resort E'ville

grout Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 15 Location:	Posted: Sep 20, 2004 - 12:35 PM GMT Edited: Sep 20, 2004 - 12:36 PM GMT Quote: I guess you feel pretty strongly about that, Grout Yeah .. its a nice place... I enjoy skiing many of the resorts in Ski's list.. plus some that didn't make it.. But Holiday is my home resort and it is.. a nice small mountain.. very active and constantly upgraded. It is also a year-round resort with golf.. pools .. mt biking and is in a very "sports" oriented area with hiking fishing, kayaking/canoeing and more close by.. sound like the "ad agency" for the area I know... but it is fun..!!

professor Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 08, 2004 Posts: 229 Location:Vermont	Posted: Sep 20, 2004 - 12:42 PM GMT I'd have to say that the most odd omisison from this list would have to be Sugarbush. Jay also "belongs" as a ski area, but I guess its regulars are too busy powder skiing to bother reading ski magazines!

sledhaulingmedic Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Dec 20, 2002 Posts: 2872 Location:	Posted: Sep 20, 2004 - 1:05 PM GMT I generallly baffled when I frist read the readers poll results, but then I remember that the bulk of the skiing public is looking for different things in their "skiing experience". Anyone remember SJ Top ten? __________ "Don't piss off the locals, Don't make work for the patrol"

lonk7880 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Aug 05, 2004 Posts: 390 Location:New York, NY	Posted: Sep 20, 2004 - 1:44 PM GMT These ratings are absolute crap. Honestly, I'm cancelling my subscription to SKI because I can't take a magazine or its readers where Sugarbush is 15 and Holiday Valley is 3. FRIGGIN JAY PEAK DIDN'T MAKE THE LIST. Also, in the West, Alta didn't even make the list, and Deer Valley is 2. I just think that the way in which this is conducted is really really sloppy. You just can't tabulate scores where this is the outcome. Shouldn't it be weighted different. SKIING usually does a much better job. Loon? Over Jay? Jeez....

NewSkier Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Mar 23, 2003 Posts: 314 Location:	Posted: Sep 20, 2004 - 1:56 PM GMT Gotta take the ratings for what they are and what they are are merely the opinions of those readers of Ski Magazine who took the time to respond to the survey. It's not a scientifically selected sample of skiers. A poll of Snow Journal participants would no doubt give very different results. Additionally, it may make sense to rate areas on a range of dimensions (e.g., challenge, grooming, snow quality, crowds, glades, bumps, quality and convenience of lodging, apres ski, etc., etc.). What's important to one rater may not be important at all to another. I enjoy reading these kinds of articles, but I know the articles in Ski and Skiing are basically just fill for advertising.

mapnut Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jul 31, 2002 Posts: 5062 Location:New York City	Posted: Sep 20, 2004 - 2:38 PM GMT Quote: Additionally, it may make sense to rate areas on a range of dimensions (e.g., challenge, grooming, snow quality, crowds, glades, bumps, quality and convenience of lodging, apres ski, etc., etc.). I have a book published in 1978 I think, which did exactly that. "Skiing the Best" by Miles Jaffe and Dennis Krieger. I doubt you could find a copy, even in a library. The best part of it was the descriptions of the skiing, at least a page for most areas. They covered about 30 Western and 20 Eastern areas, US and Canada, all of which they had skied. I would say the information is still pretty relevant despite the passage of time. The rating system was an appendix and they didn't give it much emphasis, but each area got 1-5 point ratings in N, I and E skiing, overall trail design, lifts, snow conditions, lodging, restaurants and nightlife, accessibility, cost, crowds etc. They pointed out that some categories offset each other, i.e. good for nightlife is bad for uncrowded, and each reader should weight the ratings according to his own preferences. Tonight I'll look it up and post the top areas by their point system.

powdr Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Feb 11, 2004 Posts: 202 Location:Back of the Wasatch	Posted: Sep 20, 2004 - 4:06 PM GMT Quote: These ratings are absolute crap. Honestly, I'm cancelling my subscription to SKI because I can't take a magazine or its readers where Sugarbush is 15 and Holiday Valley is 3. FRIGGIN JAY PEAK DIDN'T MAKE THE LIST. Also, in the West, Alta didn't even make the list, and Deer Valley is 2..... To me what seals the ineptitude of this rating system is when side by side resorts get vastly varing scores for things that should be exacly the same. For example, night life, lodging and access at PCMR, DV & The Canyons should be nearly the same (they draw from the smae town), yet have markedly different scores. Then there are the sheople resorts that get great ratings just because of the sheer volume of people that visit them, boosting their ratings since at least someone's gotta think that it is steed, deep or otherwise. Vail high in the rankings for steep?!? Bwahahah. Powdr __________ The TeleProphet

patrick Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jul 12, 2004 Posts: 236 Location:Ottawa	Posted: Sep 20, 2004 - 8:48 PM GMT In 1995, the criterias were based on the reader judged important for them. I don't have all the criterias in front of me, but it included apres-ski, food, snow, lifts, challenge, distance, value, etc... These criterias were then weighted. The score is a reflection of what the AVERAGE SKI magazine subscriber. It was like that in 1995. The cool thing about that SKI mag 1995, is that they had a detail score for each category (ie. 74/100, not a ranking). I entered everything in a Excel spreedsheet and blowed away that I didn't care about most categories. The results were totally different. I also posted those results in a discussion on firsttracks in the Spring/Summer 2003? If I find it on my old computer, I will post the results here. __________ Ski Mad World

patrick Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jul 12, 2004 Posts: 236 Location:Ottawa	Posted: Sep 20, 2004 - 8:53 PM GMT Quote: 1. Tremblant 2. Stowe 3. Holiday Valley 4. Killington 5. Sugarloaf 6. Loon 7. Whiteface 8. Stratton 9. Bretton Woods 10. Sunday River I have haven't skied at 3, 6, 8 and 9. Tremblant is probably #12 or 13 in my books. Here is my quick list. #1: Stowe, VT (tie) #1: Sugarloaf, ME (tie) #3: Whiteface, NY #4: Mad River Glen,VT #5: Ste-Anne, QC #6: Sugarbush, VT #7: Jay Peak, VT #8: Sunday River, ME #9: Killington, VT (Okay, It's been a few years since I have been, but it is still in my top 10) #10: Smugglers' Notch, VT (follow by something like this) #11: Cannon, NH #11: Massif, QC #11: Tremblant, QC __________ Ski Mad World

ismrider Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Mar 21, 2004 Posts: 273 Location:CT	Posted: Sep 20, 2004 - 9:04 PM GMT Quote: These ratings are absolute crap. Honestly, I'm cancelling my subscription to SKI because I can't take a magazine or its readers where Sugarbush is 15 and Holiday Valley is 3. FRIGGIN JAY PEAK DIDN'T MAKE THE LIST. Also, in the West, Alta didn't even make the list, and Deer Valley is 2. I just think that the way in which this is conducted is really really sloppy. You just can't tabulate scores where this is the outcome. Shouldn't it be weighted different. SKIING usually does a much better job. Loon? Over Jay? Jeez.... Couldn't have said it better......I think Alta lost because it dosent allow snowboarding.... __________ I Dont Have To Outrun The Bear, I Just Have To Outrun You.....

Dru690 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Oct 08, 2003 Posts: 181 Location:Manhattan	Posted: Sep 21, 2004 - 4:14 AM GMT Quote: These ratings are absolute crap. Honestly, I'm cancelling my subscription to SKI because I can't take a magazine or its readers where Sugarbush is 15 and Holiday Valley is 3. FRIGGIN JAY PEAK DIDN'T MAKE THE LIST. Also, in the West, Alta didn't even make the list, and Deer Valley is 2. I just think that the way in which this is conducted is really really sloppy. You just can't tabulate scores where this is the outcome. Shouldn't it be weighted different. SKIING usually does a much better job. Loon? Over Jay? Jeez.... Blame the readers, and the system. I don't give half a damn about access, on-mountain services, grooming, or any of that; all I care about are lifts, terrain diversity, and challenge. With that in mind, my personal list would be headed by Sugarbush, with Jay, MRG, Sugarloaf, and Cannon coming in somewhere behind. Nevertheless, anyone interested in a "four seasons" family-oriented, luxury experience would be disappointed at any of those aforementioned mountains.

skipatrol40s Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Apr 29, 2002 Posts: 1479 Location:	Posted: Sep 21, 2004 - 6:23 AM GMT Edited: Sep 21, 2004 - 6:38 AM GMT This is a very funny discussion. I am happy my favorite resorts did not score high. To bad for Holliday Valley, I bet the lift lines are going to be huge there this year. In case you missed it here is the online version of Top 10 in the East Also here the absolute best way to find a resort based on your onw personal preferences. RESORT FINDER BTW I take no personal responsibility for the outcome of this resort guide results The links above may be old. Anyway here is the list from October 2004. Wasn't Alta number 1 last year for out west? Alta did not even make the list this year. EAST 1. Tremblant, Quebec 2. Stowe, VT 3. Holiday Valley, NY 4. Killington, VT 5. Sugarloaf, ME 6. Loon Mountain, NH 7.Whiteface Mountain, NY 8. Stratton, VT 9. Bretton Woods, NH 10. Sunday River, ME 11. Bromley Mountain, VT 12. Okemo, VT 13. Attitash, NH 14. Seven Springs, PA 15. Sugarbush, VT 16. Jimmy Peak, MA 17. Mad River Glen, VT 18. Wildcat, NH 19. Cannon Mountain, NH 20. Hunter Mountain, NY WEST 1. Vail, CO 2. Deer Valley, UT 3. Snowmass, Co 4. Beaver Creek, CO 5. Whistler/Blackcomb, B.C. 6. Breckenridge, CO 7. Aspen Mountain, CO 8. Park City, UT 9. Mammoth, CA 10. Steamboat, CO 11. Telluride, CO 12. Sun Valley, ID 13. Aspen Highlands, CO 14. Jackson Hole, WY 15. Keystone, CO 16. Heavenly, CA 17. Squaw Valley, CA 18. Lake Louise, Alberta 19. Crested Butte, CO 20. Winter Park, CO 21. Copper Mountain, CO 22. The Canyons, UT 23. Snowbird, UT 24. Big Mountain, MT 25. Northstar-at-Tahoe, CA 26. Solitude, UT 27. Big Sky, MT 28. Sunshine Village, Alberta 29. Mt. Bachelor, OR 30. Taos Ski Valley, NM

Brian Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Dec 28, 2001 Posts: 2789 Location:CENTRAL MASS.	Posted: Sep 21, 2004 - 2:48 PM GMT i say NO TO LOON! brian o __________ "riders on the storm" JM

patrick Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jul 12, 2004 Posts: 236 Location:Ottawa	Posted: Sep 21, 2004 - 3:38 PM GMT Edited: Sep 21, 2004 - 3:42 PM GMT Quote: In 1995, the criterias were based on the reader judged important for them. I don't have all the criterias in front of me, but it included apres-ski, food, snow, lifts, challenge, distance, value, etc... These criterias were then weighted. The score is a reflection of what the AVERAGE SKI magazine subscriber. It was like that in 1995. The cool thing about that SKI mag 1995, is that they had a detail score for each category (ie. 74/100, not a ranking). I entered everything in a Excel spreedsheet and blowed away that I didn't care about most categories. The results were totally different. I also posted those results in a discussion on firsttracks in the Spring/Summer 2003? If I find it on my old computer, I will post the results here. Found the old SKI mag (October 1995). Categories were weighted in 1995 as such: Snow Conditions .88 Terrain .84 Lifts & Lines .81 Value .79 Challenge .76 Fair Weather .70 Accessibility .67 Lodging .66 Food .56 Après-ski .48 SKI MAG Results in 1995: #1: Tremblant #2: Stowe #3: Killington #4: Sunday River #5: Whiteface #6: Pico #7: Loon #8: Sugarloaf #9: Holiday #10: Sugarbush #11: Seven Springs #12: Jay Peak #13: Stratton #14: Okemo #15: Bromley #16: Smugglers #17: Snow #18: Cannon #19: Wildcat #20: Attitash I recalculated the results uniquely based on these four Categories (I think?) - no weighting: Snow Conditions Terrain Value Challenge Now compare the previous results with these: #1: Jay (nice jump from 12 to 1: +11) #2: Sunday River (+2) #3: Tremblant (-2) #4: Whiteface (+1) #5: Stowe (-3) #6: Sugarloaf (+2) #7: Pico (-1) #8: Cannon (nice jump from these nice NH ski areas: +10) #9: Wildcat (+10) #10: Killington (biggest drop: -9) #11: Sugarbush (-1) #12: Holiday (-3) #13: Gore (+ #14: Smugglers (+2) #15: Loon (- #16: Elk (>+5) #17: Bromley (-2) #18: Okemo (-4) #19: Stratton (-6) #20: Snow (-3) With the recalculations, two areas fell off top 20. Seven Springs (11) and Attitash (20) were replaced by Gore (13) and Elk (16) Ah yes, where is Mad River Glen? Believe it or not, MRG didn't make the top 35 ski areas in the East in 1995, so there was no numbers to work with. __________ Ski Mad World

Bill29 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Dec 19, 2002 Posts: 2414 Location:	Posted: Sep 21, 2004 - 7:22 PM GMT Is everyone as astounded and appalled a I am that Wachusett didn't make the top 10? What's the matter with everyone; don't they recognize excellence? O.K., to be serious for a minute, I think that one of the ski mags a year or two ago had WA WA on one of their top 10 East specialty lists, i.e. ski school or snow-making or something like that. I haven't seen any ski mags so far this year. Are they still doing that? It would seem to make a little more sense than just an overall "best ski areas" list. But no matter how you slice it, those lists aren't to be taken seriously, IMO.

grout Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 15 Location:	Posted: Sep 21, 2004 - 10:59 PM GMT Quote: Blame the readers, and the system. I don't give half a damn about access, on-mountain services, grooming, or any of that; all I care about are lifts, terrain diversity, and challenge. With that in mind, my personal list would be headed by Sugarbush, with Jay, MRG, Sugarloaf, and Cannon coming in somewhere behind. Nevertheless, anyone interested in a "four seasons" family-oriented, luxury experience would be disappointed at any of those aforementioned mountains. Fortunately the health and economics of the sport are driven by the family oriented experience.. that is where the money comes to sustain the "experience' for all you "hard edged' only true skiers/riders.. This business is driven by money spent ...and it is highly competitive...

Jimme Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jan 25, 2002 Posts: 1208 Location:6 miles West of Jiminy Peak, MA	Posted: Sep 22, 2004 - 3:06 PM GMT Edited: Sep 23, 2004 - 12:05 AM GMT Holiday Valley? With all due respect as it seems like a decent smaller place. . .how'd that even make the list? Show of hands- How many people east of Utica, NY expect to travel to western NY to ski? HV looks like a good mid size area akin to Jiminy Peak, but with only 750' of vertical it seems an unlikely destination resort. (Maybe if you live in Buffalo.) Maybe the stats for the survey were gathered by CBS. This is not to downplay or poke fun at the smaller areas as I love to ski them. I have to venture a guess that HV being so close to Buffalo is how it got the numbers. Jimme __________ The Artful Dodger

kim Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jun 16, 2004 Posts: 34 Location:New Hampshire	Posted: Sep 22, 2004 - 4:54 PM GMT Quote: 1. Tremblant 2. Stowe 3. Holiday Valley 4. Killington 5. Sugarloaf 6. Loon 7. Whiteface 8. Stratton 9. Bretton Woods 10. Sunday River I'm no fan of Tremblant, but I really like Killington and Stratton for the "total experience" as some would call it. Bretton Woods is great in terms of grooming, no lift lines, easy to get to....it just lacks a lot of amenities around it (the Mount Washington is beautiful but I don't want to get dressed up when I eat after skiing). Sunday River has great terrain and lots of it. My objection to Sunday River is it's freaking far. Lake Placid is my favorite town in the east (assuming they included that in their criteria - and I know it's 20 miles or so from the ski area...). Loon is in Woodstock/Lincoln area, a really great area for skiiers. Stowe is a wonderful ski area, I'll admit. So I guess all in all I'm not too disappointed. I never did Holiday Valley.

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