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Tenney Windmills
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Forums : NELSAP Discussion : NELSAP Discussion
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Tenney Windmills
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newmanProfile | Galleries Rank: 
Member Since: Posts: 2124 Location: |
Posted: Aug 03, 2012 - 2:30 PM GMT Quote: My worry is that these wind turbines (the ones in Groton) will only produce, on average enough energy for 20,000 homes - at peak 58,000. What happens when production is below average? How many homes then? Peak electricity usage is in summer when the wind is lowest. Cant they store the energy they made? I thought it went to something like a big battery. isnt that how they do it in Niagara Falls? I have no clue on this, can someone clue me in? |
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nepa_9939 Profile | Galleries Rank:
Member Since: Posts: 158 Location:  |
Posted: Aug 03, 2012 - 4:41 PM GMT Quote: Cant they store the energy they made? Yep. Wind Power Storage __________ End this Phony Drug War |
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z1000307470 Profile | Galleries Rank:
Member Since: Posts: 504 Location: |
Posted: Aug 03, 2012 - 8:26 PM GMT Quote: My worry is that these wind turbines (the ones in Groton) will only produce, on average enough energy for 20,000 homes - at peak 58,000. What happens when production is below average? How many homes then? Peak electricity usage is in summer when the wind is lowest. This is usually balanced by the Independent System Operator. There are 10 in the US and Canada. When the windmills are not generating, power is brought into the system from other sources. These windmills are a very small % of the total in the region. ISO New England US ISO Info I think there have been some issues in Oregon/Washington with too much wind power. This is a problem right now during the snow melt in the spring during peak hydro electricity production. There are also problems with grid capacity as more wind farms are built. |
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mapnut Profile | Galleries Rank:
Member Since: Posts: 5062 Location: |
Posted: Aug 04, 2012 - 12:53 AM GMT Quote: [quote] I thought it went to something like a big battery. isnt that how they do it in Niagara Falls? Niagara stores water. There are big reservoirs on the high ground on both sides of the river, which are filled up at night when they reduce the flow over the Falls. Then they generate during peak hours with conventional hydroturbines. |
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obienick Profile | Galleries Rank:
Member Since: Posts: 1168 Location: |
Posted: Aug 04, 2012 - 3:59 AM GMT Quote: I thought it went to something like a big battery. isnt that how they do it in Niagara Falls? Northfield, MA (I forget the power company's name) has several reservoirs they pump water between.. They pump water up to a higher reservoir at night when there's an excess in supply of electricity, and use gravity to generate electricity during the day when electricity is needed. |
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kayaker Profile | Galleries Rank:
Member Since: Posts: 463 Location: |
Posted: Aug 07, 2012 - 2:14 AM GMT Quote: Cant they store the energy they made? I thought it went to something like a big battery. isnt that how they do it in Niagara Falls? I have no clue on this, can someone clue me in? They can, but most wind turbine facilities do not store the electricity. You are fighting the second law of thermodynamics and it always wins (unless the North Carolina legislature decides to repeal it). Every time you store or transfer energy you lose some. The only time energy storage at a wind facility makes sense is if you can generate electricity when the wind is blowing and then sell it to the grid when prices are high. This price differential can make up for losses due to storage and make the facility economically viable. This is how hydropower pump storage facilites can actually use more energy than they produce, but still make money. They play the price differential between buying electricity at a low price to pump water up and then generate electricity by running the water downhill through the hydro turbines when the price is high. |
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riverc0il Profile | Galleries Rank:
Member Since: Posts: 3185 Location:  |
Posted: Aug 07, 2012 - 2:45 AM GMT Quote: This is how hydropower pump storage facilites can actually use more energy than they produce, but still make money. They play the price differential between buying electricity at a low price to pump water up and then generate electricity by running the water downhill through the hydro turbines when the price is high.  __________ TheSnowWay.com |
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kayaker Profile | Galleries Rank:
Member Since: Posts: 463 Location: |
Posted: Aug 09, 2012 - 1:20 AM GMT There is no free lunch in energy production with the possible exception of conservation. The total costs of energy production at a coal fired plant are enormous and we do not pay all the price at the meter. The environmental costs of mountain top removal, air pollution, acid rain (now largely mitigated due to what some would call excessive environmental regulations) and health care costs are real and can be monetized. When these external costs are included coal suddenly does not look so cheap. There are also real environmental costs to the construction and operation of wind turbines, but IMHO they pale in comparison to most fossil fuel plants. The major problem is that renewables cannot be dispatched meaning the ISOs cannot call them up and tell them to start generating when demand is high because the wind may not be blowing, sun not shining, tide not flowing. Therefore the problem with renewables devolves to a problem of energy storage which bring us back to the second law of thermo. Before I get off my soap box remember CONSERVATION=PATRIOTISM. A kilwatt not generated has no cost and no environmental impact. |
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mapnut Profile | Galleries Rank:
Member Since: Posts: 5062 Location: |
Posted: Aug 09, 2012 - 1:57 AM GMT Quote: [quote]This is how hydropower pump storage facilites can actually use more energy than they produce, but still make money. Sure, that's called load leveling. One problem with all big power plants is that it's not practical to turn them off at night, and at night there's no use for all the power they generate in the day. One solution is to meet the peak demand with smaller gas turbine and hydro plants (which can be shut down at night). Another is to offer cheaper rates at night so you do your laundry late. Utilities who run pumped storage are actually just finding a use for power they can't sell. So it seems load imbalance will always be a problem with windmills, unless they can be linked to pumped storage. Somebody proposed an underground pumped storage plant at Wiscasset, ME, where they have this big transmission line for some reason. The reservoir would be 1800 feet underground, and would only be economical because it's in good granite rock that they could sell. Would flood the market though, I think. |
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