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Tenney Windmills

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Author	Post
riverc0il Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jan 05, 2002 Posts: 3187 Location:Ashland, NH	Posted: Jul 28, 2012 - 2:13 AM GMT Any one have any information on the new windmills being constructed on Tenney? Was riding my bike on Fairgrounds Road in Plymouth, came around a corner, and BAM full view of four or five windmills in construction. Wasn't expecting it, took me by surprise. __________ TheSnowWay.com

bobbutts Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Nov 20, 2006 Posts: 611 Location:Central NH	Posted: Jul 28, 2012 - 3:01 AM GMT Quote: Any one have any information on the new windmills being constructed on Tenney? Was riding my bike on Fairgrounds Road in Plymouth, came around a corner, and BAM full view of four or five windmills in construction. Wasn't expecting it, took me by surprise. I saw 3 trucks carrying GIANT windmill blades heading north on 93 near Tilton on Monday.. was wondering where they were heading

rocket21 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 13, 2001 Posts: 8419 Location:USA	Posted: Jul 28, 2012 - 10:14 PM GMT This was the subject of Guess #1331. It is part of the Groton Wind Farm. 12 miles of new road were constructed and about 20 or 24 (forget which offhand) 400 foot (at highest pass) turbines will be built, along Tenney, Fletcher, and that area. __________ NewEnglandSkiHistory.com

witch hobble Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Mar 02, 2007 Posts: 218 Location:	Posted: Jul 29, 2012 - 2:14 AM GMT They've been in the works for a while. There were presentations from Iberdrola, the massive Spanish wind power company, or their subsidiary, in Plymouth, Groton and Rumney within the last few years, to field questions and absorb complaints. There have been skinnier, weather monitoring towers on those ridges for about 4 or 5 years. Nothing like the organized (but still futile) resistance going on over on the Lowell Mtn range in VT, but many residents of Rumney in particular are upset about how much of their viewshed will be impacted. Big electrical utility upgrades going on all around Greater Plympton. You must have noticed. New poles, transformers, lots of work at the site on the Pemi by the court house. Widening of the clearing where the lines cross the river by Livermore Falls.

riverc0il Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jan 05, 2002 Posts: 3187 Location:Ashland, NH	Posted: Jul 29, 2012 - 2:23 AM GMT Edited: Jul 29, 2012 - 2:24 AM GMT Thanks for the update, witch hobble and rocket21. Surprised I hadn't heard any one on campus talking about it. I don't really follow local issues much but I figure I would have heard something if this has been on going for years now. Quote: Big electrical utility upgrades going on all around Greater Plympton. You must have noticed. New poles, transformers, lots of work at the site on the Pemi by the court house. Widening of the clearing where the lines cross the river by Livermore Falls. Well, that makes sense now. I haven't noticed much work but I biked past the work at Livermore Falls several times. Where is the electricity going? Any benefits locally? __________ TheSnowWay.com

tedede Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Nov 15, 2004 Posts: 813 Location:Amherst, NH	Posted: Jul 29, 2012 - 11:03 AM GMT It's not a sound business model, so of course the federal government is backing it with tax credits. http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/267950/wind-farm-cleared-by-state-panel The one in Coos county also has received $170M in loan guarantees to a LLC that is owned by a multi-billion dollar company. http://www.unionleader.com/article/20110928/OPINION01/709289961 While employing people temporarily to build it, the profits on the project will go to a Spanish company. Of course the local landowners will be compensated, and it looks like the town of Groton will net about $250K a year (the actual estimate was "almost 50%" of their budget). And the state will get its tax revenues too. The power will go to Massachusetts. NH is a net exporter of power, by a factor of almost 3:1.

joshua segal Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jul 12, 2004 Posts: 5964 Location:NH	Posted: Jul 29, 2012 - 12:32 PM GMT Edited: Jul 29, 2012 - 12:33 PM GMT I'm not sure that receiving a big hunk of tax revenues is not a good thing. I am chairman of a large metrpolitan park (see http://cemeteryjewish.com/index_mfp_page.html) whose entire capital budget is paid for by the revenues from a large cell phone tower on the property. This includes the building of (and maintaining) bridges, boat ramps and control of invasive species. I suspect a century and a half ago, railroad tracks were considered an unsightly blight on the scenery, as were telephone polls a century ago and cell phone towers over the last 20 years. I think that the ecological soundness of wind power qualifies as a "greater good". Now I was told that as much as 25 years ago, Crotched Mountain had in the neighborhood of 14 windmills. They were removed because the wind mills of a bygone era were high maintenance and not the hi-tech. Today's wind turbines are high efficiency, higher megawattage and a totally renewal energy source. __________ Joshua Segal

z1000307470 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: May 07, 2004 Posts: 504 Location:Bergen County, NJ	Posted: Jul 29, 2012 - 7:49 PM GMT Quote: It's not a sound business model, so of course the federal government is backing it with tax credits. http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/267950/wind-farm-cleared-by-state-panel The one in Coos county also has received $170M in loan guarantees to a LLC that is owned by a multi-billion dollar company. http://www.unionleader.com/article/20110928/OPINION01/709289961 I am hard pressed to name any energy company that does not get some benefits from Fed and State govts that are not available to other companies. The main oil companies in the US are still using benfits that started in 1916: "The Congressional Research Service states the fledgling oil industry in the United States first received government assistance in 1916. That was when intangible drilling costs were able to be fully deducted from a company's expenses for tax purposes. In 1926, a write-off for cost depletion was introduced. That provision allowed oil companies to deduct costs based upon overall gross receipts and not just the actual value of the oil. Both of those subsidies still exist. The Obama administration claims the average subsidy for huge oil companies is $4 billion per year. The bill in the Senate would have saved $24 billion in 10 years. " Link

witch hobble Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Mar 02, 2007 Posts: 218 Location:	Posted: Jul 30, 2012 - 1:51 AM GMT Alright.....trying to draw this back to ski related content.....24 windmills on the ridge- does this have any negligible effect on Tenney's chances at finding someone to invest in the ski area? Final nail in the coffin?

obienick Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Oct 21, 2005 Posts: 1197 Location:	Posted: Jul 30, 2012 - 2:21 AM GMT If they are on Tenney property, presumably the landowner would be making a royalty for their presence. We can hope that the payments are sufficient to attract a developer to counteract any poor snow season.

newman Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Aug 21, 2008 Posts: 2128 Location:The mighty SKI WARD Shrewsbury MA	Posted: Jul 30, 2012 - 3:27 AM GMT Are the windmills on property that was purchased in the last auction? Is the property the turbines are placed ski area land, or just very close. People mention the windmills on Brodie Mt. I dont think the land those are on were ever part of Kellys of Fairbanks property.

rocket21 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 13, 2001 Posts: 8419 Location:USA	Posted: Jul 30, 2012 - 11:57 AM GMT I believe some of the land was part of Tenney, however I don't know if it's part of the current tract. The turbines are currently nowhere near the built out ski area (but are near the never-completed summit complex). __________ NewEnglandSkiHistory.com

witch hobble Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Mar 02, 2007 Posts: 218 Location:	Posted: Jul 31, 2012 - 1:39 AM GMT Not on the ski area property. Ski area has northeast exposure. Windmills on the north, and northwest part of the mountain and across "groton hollow" onto Fletcher Mountain. Polar Caves is also on the north end of this little range.

rocket21 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 13, 2001 Posts: 8419 Location:USA	Posted: Jul 31, 2012 - 11:11 AM GMT Quote: Not on the ski area property. Ski area has northeast exposure. Windmills on the north, and northwest part of the mountain and across "groton hollow" onto Fletcher Mountain. Polar Caves is also on the north end of this little range. The leased area runs over the summit of Tenney Mountain (ski trails were cut but never lift served). I believe there are now turbines on either side of the communications tower that was built near where the top of the never-installed triple was supposed to go. As to whether that is part of the present day ski area property, I do not know. __________ NewEnglandSkiHistory.com

witch hobble Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Mar 02, 2007 Posts: 218 Location:	Posted: Aug 02, 2012 - 2:20 AM GMT I was in the parking lot of the Lumber Outlet today and stopped in my tracks to watch 3 blades go by on seperate trucks. Impressive. It is funny the locations where you can see the wind farm from, and where you can't.

riverc0il Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jan 05, 2002 Posts: 3187 Location:Ashland, NH	Posted: Aug 02, 2012 - 10:33 AM GMT Quote: I was in the parking lot of the Lumber Outlet today and stopped in my tracks to watch 3 blades go by on seperate trucks. Impressive. I wonder, between resource extraction, transportation of resources, manufacturing, transportation of the finished product, cutting of access roads, and installation, how long it takes a windmill to offset all the energy used to create it? Those things are indeed massive! __________ TheSnowWay.com

rocket21 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 13, 2001 Posts: 8419 Location:USA	Posted: Aug 02, 2012 - 10:48 AM GMT Quote: I wonder, between resource extraction, transportation of resources, manufacturing, transportation of the finished product, cutting of access roads, and installation, how long it takes a windmill to offset all the energy used to create it? Those things are indeed massive! The amount of concrete used per turbine is staggering. Each one of those units will have a footing that's 30 to 50 feet wide in each direction, and 6 to 30 feet deep. __________ NewEnglandSkiHistory.com

obienick Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Oct 21, 2005 Posts: 1197 Location:	Posted: Aug 02, 2012 - 5:26 PM GMT Quote: I wonder, between resource extraction, transportation of resources, manufacturing, transportation of the finished product, cutting of access roads, and installation, how long it takes a windmill to offset all the energy used to create it? Those things are indeed massive! Why hold windmills to higher standards? Do we ask how long it takes a coal plant to produce as much energy as it takes to build the plant and extract and transport the coal? Do we ask that of a nuke where you need really large cooling towers? No.

riverc0il Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jan 05, 2002 Posts: 3187 Location:Ashland, NH	Posted: Aug 02, 2012 - 8:27 PM GMT Quote: [quote]I wonder, between resource extraction, transportation of resources, manufacturing, transportation of the finished product, cutting of access roads, and installation, how long it takes a windmill to offset all the energy used to create it? Those things are indeed massive! Why hold windmills to higher standards? Do we ask how long it takes a coal plant to produce as much energy as it takes to build the plant and extract and transport the coal? Do we ask that of a nuke where you need really large cooling towers? No.[/quote] I never held anything to a higher standard, you put words into my post. I merely asked a question about the topic at hand without going off topic, which you subsequently have. In fact, I'd love to see some data on projected returns of ALL energy sources compared to invested energy vs their life expectancy. So enlighten us, please. __________ TheSnowWay.com

abubob Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Oct 27, 2008 Posts: 760 Location:Bristol, NH	Posted: Aug 03, 2012 - 1:47 PM GMT Quote: I wonder, between resource extraction, transportation of resources, manufacturing, transportation of the finished product, cutting of access roads, and installation, how long it takes a windmill to offset all the energy used to create it? Those things are indeed massive! Quote: Why hold windmills to higher standards? Do we ask how long it takes a coal plant to produce as much energy as it takes to build the plant and extract and transport the coal? Do we ask that of a nuke where you need really large cooling towers? No. I think the point obienick is making is that these turbines may take as much energy to produce as a coal, oil or nuclear plant. Since wind turbines do not burn coal or oil or produce radioactive waste the return in clean energy is, I would think, immediate. My worry is that these wind turbines (the ones in Groton) will only produce, on average enough energy for 20,000 homes - at peak 58,000. What happens when production is below average? How many homes then? Peak electricity usage is in summer when the wind is lowest.

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