Snow Journal - Serious About Snowsports!

Home

Forums : NELSAP Discussion : NELSAP Discussion
Moderated by: Chris, nelsap, Betsy, the_hop

Anonymous posts are not allowed in this forum

ObamaCare upheld = lower ticket prices?
This topic is locked - No new posts may be made in it.

Page: 1 2

Author	Post
obienick Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Oct 21, 2005 Posts: 1165 Location:	Posted: Jun 28, 2012 - 10:54 PM GMT Regardless of your political beliefs on the situation, ObamaCare was upheld by the Supreme Court today. As everyone is aware the law has a mandate provision. But more importantly the law also prohibits dropping of coverage of you have a pre-existing condition as well as prohibiting the limiting coverage to an annual and/or lifetime coverage caps. Theoretically this means that skiers who have an unfortunate accident and suffer major injuries such as paralysis will be covered by health care and won't be paying their medical expenses out of pocket. Before this goes/went into effect you could be dropped for costing too much with an unfortunate accident. Will this decrease lawsuits against ski areas and will liability insurance policies decrease leading to lower ticket prices (or more likely slower-increasing prices)?

khowley Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Feb 09, 2008 Posts: 47 Location:Wrentham, MA	Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 12:04 AM GMT Quote: Regardless of your political beliefs on the situation, ObamaCare was upheld by the Supreme Court today. As everyone is aware the law has a mandate provision. But more importantly the law also prohibits dropping of coverage of you have a pre-existing condition as well as prohibiting the limiting coverage to an annual and/or lifetime coverage caps. Theoretically this means that skiers who have an unfortunate accident and suffer major injuries such as paralysis will be covered by health care and won't be paying their medical expenses out of pocket. Before this goes/went into effect you could be dropped for costing too much with an unfortunate accident. Will this decrease lawsuits against ski areas and will liability insurance policies decrease leading to lower ticket prices (or more likely slower-increasing prices)? I think it will lead to increases in ticket prices as the ski areas will now have higher health insurance costs as will all other businesses.

tedede Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Nov 15, 2004 Posts: 806 Location:Amherst, NH	Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 12:25 AM GMT Quote: I think it will lead to increases in ticket prices as the ski areas will now have higher health insurance costs as will all other businesses. Not true. Obama promised price decreases of up to 3000% and they will give employees raises.

brklynskier Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jul 06, 2005 Posts: 538 Location:Brooklyn, NY	Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 12:33 AM GMT That provision of the ACA has been in place for awhile now. Did ticket prices go up because of it? Did ticket prices skyrocket in Mass after Romneycare became law? Don't believe the fear mongers.

frozen forever Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Aug 04, 2004 Posts: 130 Location:Schenectady, NY	Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 2:35 AM GMT Edited: Jun 29, 2012 - 2:36 AM GMT Part of the law says businesses with over 50 employes have to proivde the high-pice, 'government-approved' plans to their workers. This could mean that the smaller areas stay the same price-wise and the big ones go up in $. Though I think it more likely the larger areas would either split themselves up into numerous smaller companies to avoid it, or cut down the permanent workers to under 50 and use more 'seasonal' or temporary workers. And I can't say I blame them, with skiing profit margins being as thin as they are. __________ Is it wrong to pray in the direction of Mad River Glen?

Rick Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Aug 13, 2002 Posts: 638 Location:	Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 2:49 AM GMT Quote: That provision of the ACA has been in place for awhile now. Did ticket prices go up because of it? Don't fool yourself. The most expensive and controversial policies of Obamacare won't go into effect for two to four more years. Businesses will now be incented to keep employee counts down and/or drop employee health coverage altogether. Now, with protection from dropped coverage, unlimited benefit ceilings and no-pre-existing conditions it means that it is no longer insurance, it’s an entitlement. That means the floodgates will open and costs will skyrocket. Not a good prescription for prosperity.

bmwskier Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Dec 30, 2009 Posts: 490 Location:Northern Vermont	Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 9:38 AM GMT I haven't read the law, but is there some kind of allowance, or adjustment for places that employ seasonal employees? Most ski areas have a year round staff that is supplemented by just winter staff that changes based on weather. Late December to beginning of March is the peak time with before and after dependent on snow and ticket sales.

bmwskier Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Dec 30, 2009 Posts: 490 Location:Northern Vermont	Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 9:45 AM GMT I'm not sure if they will have higher insurance costs as if an employee gets hurt on the job that doesn't have insurance the resort has workman's comp to pay for that. Every year we get safety briefings in the fall to remind us that workman's costs the area a LOT of money when we get hurt. Now, if each employee is covered in some way then the area can make the argument that much of the follow up care can be handled by that person's insurance rather than comp. Insurance companies get a lower rate for various actions from providers (check out your next statement-- there's a reason for the "billed" and "allowed" amount-- the latter is what the dr and the insurance company have agreed to pay and accept-- cheaper than if you're paying up front) while Comp probably pays full freight.

powderstud Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Apr 01, 2004 Posts: 262 Location:Boston	Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 10:07 AM GMT The hypocrisy that surrounds the discussion around Obama's healthcare plan is incredibly revealing of the level of political discourse in our national affairs, and the complete disassociation from facts. FACT: "Obamacare" was designed by REPUBLICANS. The entire plan was created by the HERITAGE FOUNDATION. For those of you not in the know, the Heritage Foundation is a right-wing, partisan, think-tank. FACT: "Obamacare" is actually the healthcare plan that that radical socialist commie Bob Dole presented as his healthcare plan when he was running against Bill Clinton. FACT: There is virtually no difference between Mitt Romney's Massachusetts healthcare plan, and "Obamacare." In fact, the REPUBLICANS who designed and implemented the Massachusetts plan were engaged by Obama to help design the federal plan. That the Republicans have "gone to war" against THEIR OWN PLAN without offering a single credible explanation as to why they now oppose what they initially proposed (Republicans) and implemented (Romney) kind of says it all. This plan is not perfect. It's not what I would have pursued were I Obama. It does far less efficiently what could have been done more efficiently, cost less, and produced better results. As an economist, I prefer efficient solutions rather than inefficient solutions. But inefficient solutions are far preferable to non-solutions (i.e. the status quo, which is what the Republicans want). Has anyone else noticed that Scott Brown, the Republican Senator from MA, who is solidly opposed to Obama's healthcare plan, has in fact benefited from it, and has his wealthy daughter, who can afford her own health insurance, covered under his free plan that Senate membership makes possible? That's really rich--oppose the plan, but still benefit from it personally. I'd love to hear Senator Brown help us understand his thinking there...if he actually would answer a question on the issue, which so far he has refused to do.

powderstud Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Apr 01, 2004 Posts: 262 Location:Boston	Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 10:20 AM GMT One more FACT: Since Romney's healthcare plan has been implemented in MA, our company's annual healthcare cost increases have been CONSIDERABLY LOWER. For the three years before "Romneycare" was implemented in MA, our company had to pay on average annual increases that were 24%. Since Romney's plan has been implemented in MA, our company's annual healthcare cost increases have averaged 11% (I know this because we recently took a hard look at our healthcare costs because we were considering a different carrier than we currently use). There can be a lot of reasons why our healthcare cost increases have gone down since Romney's plan was implemented. And I'll go on record stating that I do not personally believe that Romney's plan is entirely responsible for the lower cost increases. But it certainly played a part.

tedede Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Nov 15, 2004 Posts: 806 Location:Amherst, NH	Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 10:25 AM GMT Please back up your FACTS with external references. There are differences between Romney care and Obamacare. The primary one is that is a state program, not a federal one. I agree that efficient solutions are better, but I disagree with you statement the republicans want nothing. Allowing companies to compete across state lines was something the republicans wanted and was a more efficient solution. And congrats, you were doing well but you still managed to get the ad-hominem attack in with Scott Brown. Any wealthy person with offspring between the ages or 18 and 26 will benefit, it's the law now. Do you have proof that Sen Brown's "wealthy" daughter does not have her own plan?

riverc0il Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jan 05, 2002 Posts: 3185 Location:Ashland, NH	Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 11:16 AM GMT Can a Mod just lock this thread? Nothing good can come of it. __________ TheSnowWay.com

powderstud Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Apr 01, 2004 Posts: 262 Location:Boston	Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 11:58 AM GMT Edited: Jun 29, 2012 - 12:04 PM GMT FACT: "Obamacare" designed by the Heritage Foundation. Souce: Forbes Forbes article: How a conservative think-tank invented the individual mandate FACT: Scott Brown insures his wealthy daughter under Obamacare, which he opposes: Scott Brown's hypocrisy on Obamacare Tedede....you are obviously an intelligent person, and I believe as capable of doing google searches as I am. If you question information that someone indicates are facts, perhaps next time you might spend the 8 seconds it takes to do a google search that produced these links.

jb66 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jun 24, 2004 Posts: 1585 Location:	Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 11:59 AM GMT Magic Mountain is making all the right moves and things are looking up for one terrific ski area! Can't wait to ski there next season. (not-so-veiled attempt to hijack the thread...with a more contentious topic)

tedede Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Nov 15, 2004 Posts: 806 Location:Amherst, NH	Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 12:15 PM GMT Quote: FACT: "Obamacare" designed by the Heritage Foundation. Souce: Forbes http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2011/10/20/how-a-conservative-think-tank-invented-the-individual-mandate/ That simply refers to the individual mandate, and the heritage foundation's individual mandate only covered catastrophic insurance, not comprehensive. With a Congress controlled by democrat's an Pelosi saying "you'll have to pass it to see what's in it", we all know who is responsible for Obamacare. Quote: FACT: Scott Brown insures his wealthy daughter under Obamacare, which he opposes: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/01/1087880/-Scott-Brown-s-daughter-insured-under-Obamacare That simply says he is able. Not that he does. A Boston Globe article confirms your point, but it is interesting you quote an extremely progressive blog site vs a newspaper (albeit a dying one). Quote: Tedede....I believe you are as capable of doing google searches as I am. If you question these facts, perhaps you might spend the 8 seconds it took me to produce these links. I did google them. I just didn't misinterpret them.

tedede Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Nov 15, 2004 Posts: 806 Location:Amherst, NH	Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 12:17 PM GMT Quote: Magic Mountain is making all the right moves and things are looking up for one terrific ski area! Can't wait to ski there next season. (not-so-veiled attempt to hijack the thread...with a more contentious topic) Touche. You could have added Cannon for a nice flair.

jb66 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jun 24, 2004 Posts: 1585 Location:	Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 12:51 PM GMT yes, that would have made it fair and balanced...good idea

rocket21 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 13, 2001 Posts: 8404 Location:USA	Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 1:22 PM GMT Quote: Did ticket prices skyrocket in Mass after Romneycare became law? It's hard to compare vs. other states, due to ski area size, but they're definitely up since Mass Healthcare took effect half a decade ago. __________ NewEnglandSkiHistory.com

joshua segal Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jul 12, 2004 Posts: 5942 Location:NH	Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 1:26 PM GMT Most ski area employees are part time temps who receive no benefits and laws are set up in some states that exempt ski areas (and other seasonal businesses) from fair labor practices. In MA, if you are open more than 100 days per year, you lose the seasonal status. Several ski areas carefully meter their season to 100 days (or less) and some have separate Corporations/LLCs for their summer businesses so they don't exceed the 100 days on either business. __________ Joshua Segal

marcski Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Dec 14, 2003 Posts: 2066 Location:Westchester Co., N.Y.	Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 3:11 PM GMT Edited: Jun 29, 2012 - 3:21 PM GMT Quote: Don't fool yourself. Now, with protection from dropped coverage, unlimited benefit ceilings and no-pre-existing conditions it means that it is no longer insurance, it’s an entitlement. You hit it on the nose. In an advanced, civilized society, healthcare should be an entitlement and everyone should get the same care. It shouldn't matter how much money you have to pay for insurance.

Page: 1 2