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Skiing Free / Service theft

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Author	Post
obienick Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Oct 21, 2005 Posts: 1168 Location:	Posted: Jun 12, 2012 - 7:58 PM GMT Quote: I'm not sure if anyone can be "forced" to buy a ticket-- it sounds good, but what power does the ski area or employee have to do this? Even a cop really can't do that-- all he or she can do is slap some cuffs on them and take them away. Buying a pass/ticket also means acceptance of risk (it is a "contract". Any stories about someone not buying one, getting hurt and then suing? They can make a deal with the offender that if he/she pays for their ticket, the ski area won't press charges.

cbs Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jan 12, 2010 Posts: 46 Location:Riverton, CT	Posted: Jun 13, 2012 - 1:03 PM GMT When I first started working at the ski area that I am currently employed at “Theft of Service” was a huge issue. Our area is located near large population centers and offers night skiing 7 nights a week. Night skiing was by far the worst time for offenders. Back then we had hand stamped tickets and season passes that were not that difficult to forge with little graphic arts knowledge. One of my responsibilities is to be the Manager on Duty a few nights a week. During the hand stamped ticket days I would deal with about 10 Theft of Service issues each week night and 15 to 20 Friday and Saturday nights. We began using bar coded tickets about 8 years ago and RFID recently. In the past 4 seasons I have had to deal with this type of fraud only 3 times. In my experience, although the ticketing systems of today are quite expensive they are very effective. For the ski area the revenue recovered compared with the investment in the system is likely a wash at best. However, these systems have collateral benefits to both the area and the customer. By reducing ticket fraud to almost nonexistent, a large number of undesirables no longer frequent our area. Snow board and ski theft dropped considerably. Employees are not put in a situation that can get ugly quick. The paying customer is not crowded out in the lift line, trails or in the lodge by free loaders. Our ticket is a start anytime (activates at first scan) ticket. This reduces log jams at the ticket window, lift line, lodge and parking lot. This is my method of dealing with people in a Theft of Service situation. If they claim to have bought a ticket and lost it, I have a few questions that give me a good idea if they are telling the truth. If I believe them I give them another ticket and send them on there way. (People do legitimately lose tickets) If I don’t believe them and it is the first incident. I have them buy a ticket and inform them of the law in regards to Theft of Service, tell them not to do it again and send them on their way. If they cannot buy a ticket due to lack of funds, I tell them that I need to confiscate their equipment and they can get it back when they have the funds to buy a ticket. If they refuse my offer I tell them that I have no alternative but to call the police and that they will be arrested, they will have their name in the paper and have to go to court. In my dealings with this I have had to have only a handful of people arrested. Second time I just call the police. If it is a minor I try to get a parents phone number and handle it through the parents.

rickbolger Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Mar 14, 2005 Posts: 2299 Location:Great Gorge, NJ	Posted: Jun 13, 2012 - 4:35 PM GMT very informative, thanks for posting. good to know that the scanners and whatnot are working.

mt.tom Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 14, 2009 Posts: 289 Location:New England	Posted: Jun 14, 2012 - 5:49 AM GMT Having worked at two ski areas I can fill in what I know! At Stratton you were not checked for a ticket you could use the mid mountain lifts all day since tickets are only checked at the lower lifts! At Mount Snow there was an issue with the newer tickets attached by a zip tie that they switched back to the stickers because they can't be easily removed. When I worked there a ticket scanner found a ticket which someone altered a 5 into a 6 with a black Sharpie. Clever but it was sloppy!

kayaker Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Feb 26, 2002 Posts: 463 Location:	Posted: Jun 14, 2012 - 1:52 PM GMT Quote: Hey everyone, just wanted to shed some light on the ticket subject from out here in Vail... If you try and say it is a friends pass, they will detain you until that "friend" comes, at which time if the friend lent it to you, they will punish them... Whoa, "detaining" is a pretty powerful action and borders on the power of arrest. I'd like to see a discussion from people who know more about the law than me about the legality of non-law enforcement people to detain and question. They surely can choose not to allow you to ride the lift, but I don't think they can confiscate a pass that is on your person without your permission or prevent you from just walking away. A later post mentioned confiscating your equipment. Maybe under some old innkeepers law that is legal. Once in my misspent youth I was selling a full day ticket in the early afternoon at Sugarloaf. A so called security guard approached me and started to question me aggresively. I told him to get lost and walked away. Perhaps the deterrent effect was enough but I felt I had no obligation to answer his questions.

cbs Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jan 12, 2010 Posts: 46 Location:Riverton, CT	Posted: Jun 14, 2012 - 3:11 PM GMT When it comes down to confiscating some ones equipment, they are given a choice. Give me your stuff or be arrested not a ticket arrested. The perpetrator is stealing plain and simple the law is on the side of the ski area. The offer on my behalf is not something I’m obligated to do. The few stubborn and somewhat stupid people that don’t take the offer go away in cuffs. I give them every reasonable opportunity to avoid that.

kayaker Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Feb 26, 2002 Posts: 463 Location:	Posted: Jun 14, 2012 - 4:09 PM GMT Quote: When it comes down to confiscating some ones equipment, they are given a choice. Give me your stuff or be arrested not a ticket arrested. The perpetrator is stealing plain and simple the law is on the side of the ski area. The offer on my behalf is not something I’m obligated to do. The few stubborn and somewhat stupid people that don’t take the offer go away in cuffs. I give them every reasonable opportunity to avoid that. I am by no means condoning theft of services but I wonder how you can legally confiscate someone's equipment. The arresting officer might be able to do that because it was used in the commission of a crime. Secondly the perp is not stealing until found so in a court of law. I am neither a lawyer nor a troll but am interested in the legality of a proprietor confiscating and detaining. You can clearly boot them out and refuse entry again. I think this is what casinos do to card counters.

cbs Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jan 12, 2010 Posts: 46 Location:Riverton, CT	Posted: Jun 14, 2012 - 5:00 PM GMT Confiscate was probably the wrong word for me to use. I technically do not confiscate the equipment. I ask them to surrender their equipment until they can pay for their ticket or they can choose to get taken away in cuffs to a police barracks 25 miles away and then have to go to court. Most people take me up on the offer.

Jimme Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jan 25, 2002 Posts: 1208 Location:6 miles West of Jiminy Peak, MA	Posted: Jun 14, 2012 - 7:16 PM GMT Wow! Thanks for all the input. While I am not an "enforcement" type; since I have always paid for a lift ticket, then I expect everyone else to do the same. It seems like 'theft of service' is more prevalent than I thought. So far we are instructed to send ticketless "guests" to guest services. Compared to what I've read, this is very lenient. My first "nab". A young kid about 10, no ticket/season pass. Night skiing. Him "I left it in my other jacket." Me "Go get your pass from the other jacket." (While busy checking tickets, about minute passes...) Him "Sir, I forgot I left my other jacket in my Mom's car, but my Dad is a Ski Patroller here." I think to myself "Right, and my Dad owns the place." But I ask his name and Dad's name. I radio Patrol. Sure enough, the kid was on the level. "Go ahead, let him on the lift." I laughed as I figured that the kid used the oldest lines in the book, but was actually telling the truth! A short while later when I enter the shack, the kid is sitting there with Dad. Dad says "He's come to get you for not having your pass." The kid groans, I turn red, and the shack got a good laugh! __________ The Artful Dodger

skipro77 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Nov 17, 2010 Posts: 49 Location:Great Smoky Mountains	Posted: Jun 18, 2012 - 6:10 PM GMT At the ski area I previously work at, I saw several people taken away in handcuffs, as we employed off-duty cops for security. We also found out that there was one guy who was printing out lift tickets in the back of his van. He'd purchase one ticket and then copy off "extras" for his buddies. This was before the ski area had RFI scanners. This enterprising young man also made season passes and sold them at the local college. The ultimate fake ID. He not only produced passes for our ski area, but several other in the state as well.

MissDaEast Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Dec 17, 2002 Posts: 2319 Location:So. Cal / Exit 1-I89,VT	Posted: Jun 18, 2012 - 8:08 PM GMT And where is that kid now? ...probably working on Wall Street.

newman Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Aug 21, 2008 Posts: 2124 Location:The mighty SKI WARD Shrewsbury MA	Posted: Jun 23, 2012 - 12:17 AM GMT Jervis just knocked that kid on his ass. Parents and payment were taken care of later,

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