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Belleayre Cop Comps

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Author	Post
tigerskier Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Oct 30, 2001 Posts: 533 Location:	Posted: Jun 07, 2012 - 2:58 PM GMT I know a few of you have seen this since I've gotten a few e-mails, but the story ran in the Watershed Post (http://www.watershedpost.com/2012/ski-vips-cops-skied-free-belleayre) My thoughts on it: http://www.skiesq.com/2012/06/impropriety-alleged-in-belleayre-cop.html And an answer to a question about it: http://www.skiesq.com/2012/06/mailbag-belleayre-comp-question.html Frankly, I think it's much ado about nothing, but there are a lot of Belleayre skiers on this board, so I'd be curious to see what they thought.

rickbolger Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Mar 14, 2005 Posts: 2295 Location:Great Gorge, NJ	Posted: Jun 07, 2012 - 3:54 PM GMT Quote: there are a lot of Belleayre skiers on this board, so I'd be curious to see what they thought. you want the truth?

jimk Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Aug 27, 2004 Posts: 1066 Location:Wash DC area	Posted: Jun 07, 2012 - 5:26 PM GMT Sounds like they have been giving free tickets to cops for 30 years as a long standing public relations practice.

skipatrol40s Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Apr 29, 2002 Posts: 1479 Location:	Posted: Jun 07, 2012 - 6:01 PM GMT I agree this is a lot of noise about nothing. Back in the 1960s Hunter Mountain would give out free comps to NY City police officers. This was never advertised. There are many reasons why this is done that benefits everyone. Many ski areas give VIPs private ski instructors to guide them around the mountain and use the no wait ski instructor lift lines. Some ski areas give comps or discount tickets to ski patrollers and ski instructors and some do not. Some ski areas give a radio and free tickets to MDs with the understanding if they get a really really bad accident they are to respond to the First Aid room or accident scene ASAP to try to help save a life.

rickbolger Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Mar 14, 2005 Posts: 2295 Location:Great Gorge, NJ	Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 2:27 PM GMT Edited: Jun 08, 2012 - 4:55 PM GMT this is a government funded operation giving gifts to government employees, with lawyers explaining why, technically, it's ok because it happens in small doses. so if somebody bribes a cop a nickel at a time, it doesn't matter if it totals a million dollars? the undeniable truth: 1. not all cops are heroes 2. power corrupts 3. many cops, judges, government officials expect these types of perks and lean on people to get them 4. when the lid blows on this type of thing, none of the cops, judges or government officials will be prosecuted, and the IRS won't fine them for failing to declare it as income. the only one(s) who will suffer any consequences are the people the cops, judges, and government officials leaned on for the perks. 5. the jurors who have their lives disrupted to listen to this crap will be paid $20 a day, while everyone else in the room will receive hundreds of dollars for their time, and the government employees get preferred parking. ...and nobody sees anything wrong with this. edit: #5 edited to correct erroneous math

marcski Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Dec 14, 2003 Posts: 2066 Location:Westchester Co., N.Y.	Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 3:55 PM GMT Quote: this is a government funded operation giving gifts to government employees, with lawyers explaining why, technically, it's ok because it happens in small doses. so if somebody bribes a cop a nickel at a time, it doesn't matter if it totals a million dollars? the undeniable truth: 1. not all cops are heroes 2. power corrupts 3. many cops, judges, government officials expect these types of perks and lean on people to get them 4. when the lid blows on this type of thing, none of the cops, judges or government officials will be prosecuted, and the IRS won't fine them for failing to declare it as income. the only one(s) who will suffer any consequences are the people the cops, judges, and government officials leaned on for the perks. 5. the jurors who have their lives disrupted to listen to this crap will be paid $3 a day, while everyone else in the room will receive 2-3 hundred times that amount for their time, and get preferred parking. ...and nobody sees anything wrong with this. I'm an attorney in New York. I believe jurors get $15/day, I've never gotten preferred parking in almost 20 years of practicing and I don't get $600-900/hr; Most lawyers don't bill out at that high of a rate. With that said, IMHO, the Belleayre tix comp thing has been going on for a long time and should stop. Do Gore and WF offer as many comps? Seems like it might end with ORDA taking over.

rickbolger Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Mar 14, 2005 Posts: 2295 Location:Great Gorge, NJ	Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 4:58 PM GMT Edited: Jun 08, 2012 - 5:01 PM GMT I apologize! I edited number five with your corrections, thank you for the information. I even moved the trial to Delaware to give the jurors a pay raise. But jeepers, it still looks like a screwing. Any changes on numbers one through four?

obienick Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Oct 21, 2005 Posts: 1165 Location:	Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 7:34 PM GMT Edited: Jun 08, 2012 - 7:37 PM GMT Well being a juror is your civic duty, just like paying taxes, being drafted or voting.

Jimme Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jan 25, 2002 Posts: 1208 Location:6 miles West of Jiminy Peak, MA	Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 8:08 PM GMT Edited: Jun 08, 2012 - 8:13 PM GMT Pretty much agree with RickB's take on this matter...except 3 would be "some", and 5 I don't care about. In 2002 when I asked if I could get a NYS employee discount on a lift ticket while at the Belleayre ticket window I was told "only on weekdays". 10 years later when I asked the same question at Gore I was told 'we do not give discounts to State employees". But 'Municipal employees' are getting discounts at Belleayre? It would be more understandable if NYS Troopers were getting discounts; they are State employed. Will the State or ski area suffer by giving the discounts? I doubt it. Is it common practice for cops to get 'perks'? Yep. Right or wrong, this is how it goes. State owned facilities should be cautious when giving away free or discounted services. Where does it stop? Firemen? Assemblymen? Senators? Custodians? Hairstylists? Privately owned areas can do as they wish, but when it comes to a State owned area, I'd prefer that all pay. __________ The Artful Dodger

Jimme Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jan 25, 2002 Posts: 1208 Location:6 miles West of Jiminy Peak, MA	Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 8:28 PM GMT Edited: Jun 08, 2012 - 8:29 PM GMT Being friendly, and civil Quote: I agree this is a lot of noise about nothing. Back in the 1960s Hunter Mountain would give out free comps to NY City police officers. This was never advertised. There are many reasons why this is done that benefits everyone. Hunter is privately owned and can do what they think is best for their operation. Because the officers are from NYC, they won't be handing out speeding tickets or such in the Hunter area. So, I'm curious as to how 'everyone' benefits from NYC police officers getting free comps at Hunter. Noise? My employer, NYS has raised my health insurance premiums $150. a month. My agency has cut back staff and expenses to the point of stopping the meal ticket money for employees who work overtime that get only hour for hour comp time. I elected to trade-in three days of vacation time to get a little more money in my paycheck. So yes, despite the fact this is common practice; it doesn't make it right. So why do the NYC police get a discount, but Legislative employees do not? __________ The Artful Dodger

skierpilot Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Apr 01, 2006 Posts: 632 Location:	Posted: Jun 08, 2012 - 9:52 PM GMT Give me one good reason why a NYC cop should ski free at a ski area owned and funded to some degree by New York State. I would like to know how much a year Belleayre loses a year with this practice. At the end of the day the tax payers are funding this practice through higher taxes due to less revenue. It might not be alot, but every little bit helps. New York is one of the worst states when it comes to taxes and we also hold other records for the most, the worst, the highest, the most corrupt, ect. It's about time this type of practice ended!

tedede Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Nov 15, 2004 Posts: 806 Location:Amherst, NH	Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 1:23 PM GMT The root of the problem is the state is running what should be a private enterprise.

skipatrol40s Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Apr 29, 2002 Posts: 1479 Location:	Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 2:43 PM GMT Stop the presses. I said Hunter gave free tickets to a very few NY City police officers. I did not say Belleayre did. The very few tickets given out by Hunter to a very few NY City Police were for very very special reasons that I can not really elaborate on here. Lets just say these guys deserved it. Like someone said. Hunter is private and they can do what they like. As for working OT without meals get use to it. I work tons of OT, non-government, without any additional compensation except for the you got a job don't yah.

rocket21 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 13, 2001 Posts: 8403 Location:USA	Posted: Jun 10, 2012 - 11:54 PM GMT Quote: The root of the problem is the state is running what should be a private enterprise. To the point and true. __________ NewEnglandSkiHistory.com

skipatrol40s Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Apr 29, 2002 Posts: 1479 Location:	Posted: Jun 11, 2012 - 1:22 AM GMT Quote: The root of the problem is the state is running what should be a private enterprise. Quote: To the point and true. Blame all the 1940s NY State voters that voted YES on a state proposition to create Belleayre in a November election. Your ancestors have spoken and now you are stuck with it.

Jimme Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jan 25, 2002 Posts: 1208 Location:6 miles West of Jiminy Peak, MA	Posted: Jun 11, 2012 - 3:12 PM GMT Well, with figures like 16,000 comps from Belleayre, and 3200 claimed from Hunter, it is looking like someone was pretty generous with free tickets. Is this how you would want your ski area manager to run shop? Chances are good, that the people who received the comps skied Belleayre because they skied free. They then probably spent money on other things. Well, except dining out, ski equipment and lodging according to the local business owners that complained about other deals that the State dropped last season allegedly causing less skier visits and hence less local business. 16,000! That's 106 free tickets each day for a 150 day season. If it were a place the size of Stratton, Killington or Stowe these figures would make more sense, but Belleayre? T. Lanza was fired, hopefully ending this frivolous practice. No wonder the area can't turn a profit when there is pilfering beginning at top levels! __________ The Artful Dodger

brklynskier Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jul 06, 2005 Posts: 538 Location:Brooklyn, NY	Posted: Jun 11, 2012 - 6:13 PM GMT Quote: [quote]The root of the problem is the state is running what should be a private enterprise. Quote: To the point and true. Blame all the 1940s NY State voters that voted YES on a state proposition to create Belleayre in a November election. Your ancestors have spoken and now you are stuck with it. [/quote] And also on that point: It should be up to the residents of a state to decide what services a state provides. I like the fact that NYS has state parks with ski areas. As for Cannon, I have an opinion, but the matter should be settled by the residents of NH.

brklynskier Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jul 06, 2005 Posts: 538 Location:Brooklyn, NY	Posted: Jun 11, 2012 - 6:31 PM GMT Ownership aside, In many ways I look at government as conforming more to the model of a not for profit organization, as opposed to a for profit company. That said, the questions of comps, to police or otherwise, would be better addressed by looking at Belleayre's mission statement (Google it), which states that Belleayre's mission is: "To preserve and protect the environment To provide recreation To serve as an economic stimulus to the local region at no cost to the tax payer To serve as a model for future growth of other ski areas" Environment: Not really applicable Provide recreation: Yup, Giving away tickets does provide recreation...... Economic stimulus: There's a significant argument to be made for the comps here. At No cost to taxpayer: Therein lies the rub Serve as a model: What I see from this is that if Belleayre is in the black, they can give away as much as they want. I would prefer that it be limited to NYS residents. If it isn't at least breaking even, then no comps.

tedede Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Nov 15, 2004 Posts: 806 Location:Amherst, NH	Posted: Jun 12, 2012 - 11:47 AM GMT Quote: What I see from this is that if Belleayre is in the black, they can give away as much as they want. I would prefer that it be limited to NYS residents. If it isn't at least breaking even, then no comps. So you're okay with Belleayre giving away tickets until they contribute absolutely nothing to the state coffers? A private area has no choice but to pay property, business, meals, and sales taxes. I'm not saying it should be privatized (I agree that's a voter issue), but they should be required to operate like a business and not create unfair competition because they have access to the golden checkbook of taxpayer dollars.

rickbolger Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Mar 14, 2005 Posts: 2295 Location:Great Gorge, NJ	Posted: Jun 12, 2012 - 2:08 PM GMT If a school administrator is trying to decide between two contractors bidding on a job, and one contractor gives the administrator a bunch of ski vouchers... but because this is a State operation, and the perks are for cops, it's a non-issue? "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

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