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Oldest Operating Lifts in the North East

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skierpilot
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Posted: May 01, 2012 - 10:16 PM GMT

Mt. Snow's G 2 gondola was installed in '69 and removed in '85. In it's place they installed the Ego Alley chair that used the original lift towers as well as the building that encloses the unloading area. Also of note at Mt. Snow -the Beartrap double was installed in '69. It's still a double, but it's probably been overhauled a time or two.

newpylong
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Posted: May 03, 2012 - 1:35 AM GMT

Beartrap has non-original towers (except the top one) and newer chairs as well. I believe the terminals are also newer.

z1000307470
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Posted: May 03, 2012 - 3:23 PM GMT

Campgaw in NJ has 2 Hall doubles. They were installed in 1968 and 1970. They are still running.

ceo
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Posted: May 04, 2012 - 2:07 AM GMT

Per the Maine Ski Lifts Timeline, Bucksaw at Sugarloaf was installed in 1969, and Sawduster in 1970 (it was extended and realigned in the early 80s, but it's the same lift).

70s gore kid
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Posted: May 04, 2012 - 4:04 PM GMT

Let's put the MRG debate to rest for good.

The MRG Single IS STILL THE ORIGINAL LIFT.

Think of it as a classic car. Someone buys a 1957 Bel Aire, then strips it down to the frame and restores it to new condition, with new paint, rebored engine, new wiring, new upholstery, etc.

For classic car show purposes, it is still a 57 Chevy, and a very valuable one at that.

It is not a 2012 Chevy.

As the MRG lift still uses the original towers, and the chairs replicate the originals, it is still the original lift. End of story.

rocket21
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Posted: May 04, 2012 - 4:08 PM GMT

It probably comes down to how the asset is being recognized.

It'd be interesting to see if the MRG single is taxed as an improved 1940s single chairlift or a new 2000s single chairlift.

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joshua segal
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Posted: May 04, 2012 - 4:35 PM GMT

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It probably comes down to how the asset is being recognized.

It'd be interesting to see if the MRG single is taxed as an improved 1940s single chairlift or a new 2000s single chairlift.

I'm wondering if MRG's new lift was put in under the auspices of a 501c3, do they receive an easement on their taxes?

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Jonni
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Posted: May 04, 2012 - 5:47 PM GMT

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It probably comes down to how the asset is being recognized.

It'd be interesting to see if the MRG single is taxed as an improved 1940s single chairlift or a new 2000s single chairlift.

We could put this issue to rest by seeing what ANSII specs it has to adhere to. If it can still adhere to the 1940 spec, than it's still the 1948 lift...if it has to adhere to the 2010 spec, than it's a new install.

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obienick
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Posted: May 04, 2012 - 10:49 PM GMT

Edited: May 04, 2012 - 10:50 PM GMT

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I don't feel this is an appropriate metric. Any time a lift has to go through a major change, or if it has been closed for 3(?) years, it has to be brought back up to modern specs. For example:

* SL lift mentioned that was extended and realigned in the '80s (Sawduster-?) would have to be brought back up to the specs of the '80s ... it's the same lift.
* Regardless of whether it is new or not, I'm sure the single would have to be brought up to modern specs considering the towers were taken down, referbished and put up on new concrete ... questionable if it's the same lift, 70s gore kid makes a good point I agree with.
* And, on a more NELSAP front, if Big Squaw were to reopen with the summit, the double would have to be brought back up to modern specs ... it's the same lift.

z1000307470
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Posted: May 05, 2012 - 4:18 AM GMT

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Let's put the MRG debate to rest for good.

The MRG Single IS STILL THE ORIGINAL LIFT.

Think of it as a classic car. Someone buys a 1957 Bel Aire, then strips it down to the frame and restores it to new condition, with new paint, rebored engine, new wiring, new upholstery, etc.

For classic car show purposes, it is still a 57 Chevy, and a very valuable one at that.

It is not a 2012 Chevy.

As the MRG lift still uses the original towers, and the chairs replicate the originals, it is still the original lift. End of story.

So what do we call the all original 1957 Chevy that is still running? The refurbished 1957 Chevy is no longer the original car. The MRG single is not the original lift.

newpylong
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Posted: May 06, 2012 - 2:37 AM GMT

Edited: May 06, 2012 - 2:40 AM GMT

I think you about summed it up when you said REPLICA. A replica is an exact opposite of original. In my opinion there are many things original about it but the lift in general certainly isn't as a whole.

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obienick
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Posted: May 06, 2012 - 4:51 AM GMT

Edited: May 06, 2012 - 5:09 AM GMT

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So what do we call the all original 1957 Chevy that is still running? The refurbished 1957 Chevy is no longer the original car. The MRG single is not the original lift.

Many maintenance manuals, especially for airplanes and train locomotives, specify preventative maintenance regiments. Often these call for a replacement of a component with a new or refurbished part. Often, the 20-year-old B737 you are flying on has very few original components. Is it the same plane? Yes.

Is the '57 Chevy described the same Chevy as it was 55 years ago? Yes.

---

How is this as a suggestion:
* If it is located in the same spot after a cosmetic restoration, it is the same lift.
- MRG Single (same towers, replica carriers, same feel)

* If it has been upgraded/modified with many of the same parts for performance or capacity improvements, it is the same lift.
- Jay Tram (new cabins)
- Black Chair @ Magic (new carriers)
- any of a million Yan HSQ upgrades (any of the following: grips, carriers terminals)
- Monadnock Double --> Monadnock Triple @ Wachusett (carriers replaced, new cross arms)

* If it has been upgraded/modified with a significant parts change beyond normal maintenance practices, and/or if a character change has occurred, it's a new lift.
- Ego Alley @ Mt. Snow ("gondola" --> FG chair)
- Monadnock Triple --> Monadnock Express @ Wachuestt (same towers, new cross arms)

* If it has been moved, it's a "new" lift.
- South Double --> C-More Double @ Cranmore
- quads/triples @ Crotched

* If it has been lengthened or truncated, it is the same lift.
- White Peak HSQ @ Waterville
- Abeneki Quad @ Attitash

Any other ideas?

mapnut
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Posted: May 07, 2012 - 12:54 PM GMT

Well, that settles that.

teighs
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Posted: May 07, 2012 - 3:28 PM GMT

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Think of it as a classic car. Someone buys a 1957 Bel Aire, then strips it down to the frame and restores it to new condition, with new paint, rebored engine, new wiring, new upholstery, etc.

But in the case of MRG's single they didn't rebore the engine they replaced the diesel with an electric motor, so it's a new powerplant...

New powerplant, new haul cable, new chairs, new foundations... this is like "grandpa's axe" 2 new heads, 5 new handles, it is still the same axe?

joshua segal
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Posted: May 07, 2012 - 4:52 PM GMT

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I agree with teighs: the current MRG Single qualifies as a replica rather than a restoration.

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Bkroon9175
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Posted: May 07, 2012 - 5:05 PM GMT

Does anyone know how old the chain lift is at Blue Hills in Canton / Milton, MA? It had a lot of work done on it this past year but it looks pretty antiquated?

rocket21
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Posted: May 07, 2012 - 6:47 PM GMT

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Does anyone know how old the chain lift is at Blue Hills in Canton / Milton, MA? It had a lot of work done on it this past year but it looks pretty antiquated?

The double at Blue Hills was installed in 1978.

http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/Massachusetts/bluehills.php

Components may have come from Ski Valley, RI's double, which was installed in 1971.

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marcski
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Posted: May 07, 2012 - 8:28 PM GMT

The real metric is no more ski pole hooks! It's different.

jimk
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Posted: May 08, 2012 - 3:01 PM GMT

Edited: May 08, 2012 - 3:11 PM GMT

Blue Knob, PA is still operating its initial primary ski lift from when the ski area first opened in 1963. It's a Poma double chair that according to skilifts.org is 4900' long and has a 1000' vertical. This chair is still the single most important everyday lift at Blue Knob.
They have a 1964 Mueller double chair that basically parallels the Poma, but it seems less well maintained and they only run it on very crowded days, which means probably only about ten days a winter.

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Bill29
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Posted: May 08, 2012 - 7:55 PM GMT

Great picture, and it shows why a double from the 1960s isn't suitable for today's much more sizable skiers. It's not much more than a single for that guy on the chair. We've gained a lot of weight since 1963.

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