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May 18 - Annual School Budget Vote in NY State

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skipatrol40s
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Posted: Apr 28, 2010 - 4:45 PM GMT

http://www.emsc.nysed.gov/mgtserv/

The above link is an excellent web site. From there you can click on 2010-2011 Property tax report card which provided a lot of excellent data on schools in NY state.

I was able calculate cost per student by dividing Budget spending by student enrollment. The highest cost per student for schools in upstate NY with more than 1000 students is Onteora in Boiceville, NY at $31,264. per student for 1600 students. This probably has a lot to do with Onteora's significant declining enrollment and the current school board refusal to restructure and recent give away of 4% pay raises this year. The good news is Onteora has an awesome ski race team.

Sorting the schools by student enrollment I found 441 public schools in NY that have an enrollment size of 1000 students or more. I then sorted those schools by cost per student. Onteora ranked 7th highest cost per student in NY state. The other 6 schools with a higher cost per student were all from Long Island.

The average cost per NY state student for schools with more than 1000 students is $19,911.40.

LaurieP
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Posted: Apr 28, 2010 - 8:36 PM GMT
Edited: Apr 28, 2010 - 8:39 PM GMT

OK, I have stayed out of this long enough! I am a teacher and have been since 1983. I am at the top of the pay scale for my district...after 27 years I should be. The top pay in my system is no where near the amounts quoted here. I also do not have the great benefits that people have mentioned. Like other teachers here have mentioned, I work late at night correcting papers, I have to take courses to stay current and recertify every 5 years.I am dual certified, so I have to take more courses than many other teachers. I have my masters in education, but I paid for it myself and I only get $750 more a year for having it. It is quite hard for me financially right now too. I will need to get a summer job.

I am expected to purchase my own supplies for my classroom...actually, the parents are expected to purchase them for their children but if they don't and the students do not have them, I cannot teach. Many of my students do not have the support of their parents. Today I was supposed to have 3 meetings with parents to develop new IEP's (special education individualized ed plans). One parent came to the meeting, the other two told me yesterday that they would be in attendance, but then never showed up.

I am at school early each day and do not leave (most days) until about 4 pm, sometimes 5. I bring work home with me daily and spent all of last week(vacation) planning lessons. Our average class size is 25, but some go as high as 35. I get 40 minutes of planning time a day and a 23 minute lunch. Most days this planning time is spent in meetings or on the phone to parents.

Two weeks ago I had a chair thrown at me because the student was angry that the pencil sharpener did not work. Today, another student punched a peer and called me a F* H* because he was not the first one to get his paper back. We have to deal with more and more emotional problems as the years go by. Yesterday I sat until 7 pm with a student because their parent did not show up to get them.

I chaperone the Ski and Snowboard Club...we have a scholarship program so that kids that cannot afford to go can. Thanks to generous donations I was able to bring 10 students this year. With exception to Wachusett, all staff pay their own way for other trips. If the tour group offers 1 free ticket for every 15, that money is divided between all student participants to reduce their cost or it is used for a scholarship to a deserving student. We had 1 parent thank us for the scholarship and the opportunity we gave their child this year.

A teacher's job is never done...while I was typing this I got 2 emails and a call from a parent.

Oh...and there is no such thing as tenure....there is professional status, but you have to take courses and meet the requirements to maintain that.

__________
Born to ski...forced to work!http://teachski.com
mapnut
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Posted: Apr 28, 2010 - 9:01 PM GMT

Thanks Laurie, and thanks to all dedicated teachers.

Although I can't resist the temptation - Laurie teaches in Massachusetts, which we all know is much more fiscally responsible than New York.

Bait deployed . . . . . . 5 . . 4 . . 3 . . 2 . .
rickbolger
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Posted: Apr 28, 2010 - 9:11 PM GMT

based on Laurie's post, sounds like the Commonwealth could use some of their fiscal savings to fund a sterilization program in whatever hell hole she works in.
skierpilot
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Posted: Apr 28, 2010 - 9:52 PM GMT

Laurie - well said.
brian1
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Posted: Apr 28, 2010 - 11:38 PM GMT

Laurie, not all teachers are created equal, you seem to be absolutley what teaching 101 is about! Some have lost the ideals of why they started teaching, we have a friend who teaches in a lare district making in the $80,000 + range 25+ yrs into it and basically treats it as the 9-5 I'm retiring next yr whens my next trip to Cabo... again its the few dedicated that are being bashed here, which I have done my share of. My hats off to you Laurie
skipatrol40s
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Posted: Apr 29, 2010 - 10:25 AM GMT
Edited: Apr 29, 2010 - 10:47 AM GMT

Quote:
OK, I have stayed out of this long enough! I am a teacher and have been since 1983. I am at the top of the pay scale for my district...after 27 years I should be. The top pay in my system is no where near the amounts quoted here. I also do not have the great benefits that people have mentioned.
In NY state you would be making 6 figures, 95 percent of your health benefits would be paid for, and when you decided to retire you would collect 75 percent of your salary for life. This is just in upstate NY. Laurie, it does not sound like you are making anything close to this. If I lived in Mass I would probably be fighting for higher teacher's pay.

BTW many of the class sizes in K-6 around here are in the 12 to 16 size. The classes have all sorts of teacher aids to help them.

Side story -
My English teacher when I was in grades 9 through 12 was the pits. Yes same English teacher for 4 years. Years after graduation I was at a wedding where the Principle of my old HS was there. I asked him what he did with Rh____d the English teacher. He told me they researched what it would cost to fire him since he had tenure. They decided to make him a professional study hall teacher for the rest of his career. He comes in every day to work, he is a study hall teacher and gets raises just like all the other teachers. Hence my English ain't too good.
rocket21
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Posted: Apr 29, 2010 - 12:09 PM GMT

Quote:
In NY state you would be making 6 figures, 95 percent of your health benefits would be paid for, and when you decided to retire you would collect 75 percent of your salary for life. This is just in upstate NY. Laurie, it does not sound like you are making anything close to this. If I lived in Mass I would probably be fighting for higher teacher's pay.


If I'm not mistaken, members of the MTA (Massachusetts Teachers Association) can collect up to 80% of their final salary, plus COLA. In addition, depending upon the district, they can also receive a % cash bonus based upon their unused sick days at retirement.

At least in the district that I attended, I don't believe many of the teachers were making 6 figures, however by and large most of them were making more money than the average taxpaying citizen in the district. We were taught, in the classroom, that they were vastly underpaid, however as I grew older, I started to see otherwise.

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NewEnglandSkiHistory.com
mapnut
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Posted: Apr 29, 2010 - 12:43 PM GMT

[quote]
At least in the district that I attended, I don't believe many of the teachers were making 6 figures, however by and large most of them were making more money than the average taxpaying citizen in the district. [quote]

College graduates do mostly make more than the average citizen. I don't see anything wrong with that.

rocket21
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Posted: Apr 29, 2010 - 1:14 PM GMT

Quote:

College graduates do mostly make more than the average citizen. I don't see anything wrong with that.


The average citizen pays the school district salaries.

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NewEnglandSkiHistory.com
bondman
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Posted: Apr 29, 2010 - 2:08 PM GMT
Edited: Apr 29, 2010 - 8:14 PM GMT

Teachers work 10 months a year. Less than 8 hours a day. Christmas week and probably at least 2 other weeks during the school year. Incredible retirement benefits. Great medical benefits. Most good teachers spend their entire career in the same school district. No fear and concern of outside economic forces sidetracking their career. (their company sending jobs to China or just plain mismanagement.)

Sounds like a good job to me. In the current economic envirronment I think that they should contribute more to their health insurance. It would go a long way toward getting the average citizen to be more supportive of their current union negotiations.(A Modest Proposal)

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God Bless Hannes Schneider
rocket21
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Posted: Apr 29, 2010 - 6:49 PM GMT

Another point about public school salaries - teachers do not pay Social Security taxes. For us in the dreaded private sector, 12.4% of our pay goes to Social Security taxes (6.2% directly out of our paycheck, with another 6.2% deducted prior).

In other words, a teacher making $50,000 a year brings home $3,100 more than a private school teacher counter part.

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NewEnglandSkiHistory.com
davew
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Posted: Apr 29, 2010 - 8:14 PM GMT

Quote:
Another point about public school salaries - teachers do not pay Social Security taxes. For us in the dreaded private sector, 12.4% of our pay goes to Social Security taxes (6.2% directly out of our paycheck, with another 6.2% deducted prior).

In other words, a teacher making $50,000 a year brings home $3,100 more than a private school teacher counter part.

are you sure about that (the 12.4%) I thought it was 13.5%, split evenly between employer and employee (maybe the additional is the medicaide tax?) of course, if you're self-employeed or a small business owner, you get to pay the whole thing.
nelsap
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Posted: Apr 29, 2010 - 9:00 PM GMT

"Another point about public school salaries - teachers do not pay Social Security taxes. For us in the dreaded private sector, 12.4% of our pay goes to Social Security taxes (6.2% directly out of our paycheck, with another 6.2% deducted prior)."

Ah yes, but they don't get any social security benefits either...

JD

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Jeremy Davis
skizilla
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Posted: Apr 29, 2010 - 9:25 PM GMT

Not an English teacher, a librarian and this is the internet so grammar means nothing. If you are so concerned with grammar and spelling go become an English teacher. If i told you my salary you would scream....ok I am a smug jerk so I will 85+ ... chew on that. It is work after all not a charity. I should get paid whatever I or in my stead my union can negotiate. This is America that is how it works. I make 0 apologies for making decent money.
If you are unhappy with your money or benefits negotiate harder, work harder or join a union, their is strength in numbers.
Yes I spread right wing corporate hate about the corporate exploitation of the worker. It is a text book fact. You can still see it in action in any third world country. Corporations who pay penny on the dollar to their workers, employ children and pollute their land. The reason for the great environmental, and workers rights turn around in this country can be attributed to progressive ideas. BTW the reason we have a much cleaner environment now is also because greedy corporations took their jobs to china also taking with them their pollution. Go check out how polluted china is now.

I have friends at corporations making two to three times as much however. And yes they work more blah blah blah. But the teaching day was set up around different times and that is not our fault I would gladly go to trimesters and work the summers to get a little more ski time off. BTW an extra cost of teaching is you vacation when everyone else and their kids do. So everything is twice as expensive. No mid week ski ticket discounts, no off holiday discounts, and crowded crappy weekend ski conditions.
Sorry to be so snide, but I am really sick of hearing how lazy and smug teachers are and how good they have it. I am happy when other people have success so should you be. I do not complain that my plumber gets like 50 an hour or my car mechanic 72, good for them and good for all of you who can make a success financially or other wise.
Yeah really!!! My bad, Native American giver!!



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There is no truth only coercion of opinion
nelsap
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Posted: Apr 29, 2010 - 10:58 PM GMT

Just out....

Study: Public employees better educated, more skilled, paid less....

Jeremy

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Jeremy Davis
skizilla
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Posted: Apr 29, 2010 - 11:36 PM GMT

Thanks for that.

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There is no truth only coercion of opinion
mapnut
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Posted: Apr 29, 2010 - 11:39 PM GMT

Quote:
Not an English teacher, a librarian and this is the internet so grammar means nothing.


Maybe to you, but it influences my opinion of you. I'm sure you don't care about that, but you're defending teachers here. They may wish you'd represent them better.

rocket21
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Posted: Apr 30, 2010 - 1:15 AM GMT

Quote:

Ah yes, but they don't get any social security benefits either...


Firstly, even though I'm required to pay into Social Security, it's unlikely that I'm going to see much, if anything, from it when I retire. Instead, I have to provide for my own retirement, using post-tax dollars (in other words, I have to pay social security tax on my income before putting it into my IRA...explain that?!?).

Secondly, teachers do get social security benefits. If you work in the private sector part time, or full time for a little while, you qualify for social security.

I know multiple public school teachers who retired at a relatively young age with a nice pension and then were able to collect a relatively reasonable social security check a few years later.

__________
NewEnglandSkiHistory.com
rocket21
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Posted: Apr 30, 2010 - 1:16 AM GMT
Edited: Apr 30, 2010 - 1:17 AM GMT

Quote:
Not an English teacher, a librarian and this is the internet so grammar means nothing. If you are so concerned with grammar and spelling go become an English teacher. If i told you my salary you would scream....ok I am a smug jerk so I will 85+ ... chew on that. It is work after all not a charity. I should get paid whatever I or in my stead my union can negotiate. This is America that is how it works. I make 0 apologies for making decent money.
If you are unhappy with your money or benefits negotiate harder, work harder or join a union, their is strength in numbers.
Yes I spread right wing corporate hate about the corporate exploitation of the worker. It is a text book fact. You can still see it in action in any third world country. Corporations who pay penny on the dollar to their workers, employ children and pollute their land. The reason for the great environmental, and workers rights turn around in this country can be attributed to progressive ideas. BTW the reason we have a much cleaner environment now is also because greedy corporations took their jobs to china also taking with them their pollution. Go check out how polluted china is now.

I have friends at corporations making two to three times as much however. And yes they work more blah blah blah. But the teaching day was set up around different times and that is not our fault I would gladly go to trimesters and work the summers to get a little more ski time off. BTW an extra cost of teaching is you vacation when everyone else and their kids do. So everything is twice as expensive. No mid week ski ticket discounts, no off holiday discounts, and crowded crappy weekend ski conditions.
Sorry to be so snide, but I am really sick of hearing how lazy and smug teachers are and how good they have it. I am happy when other people have success so should you be. I do not complain that my plumber gets like 50 an hour or my car mechanic 72, good for them and good for all of you who can make a success financially or other wise.
Yeah really!!! My bad, Native American giver!!



Once again to be blunt, if that was being preached in my child's public school classroom, I would do everything in my power to have that teacher dismissed.

__________
NewEnglandSkiHistory.com

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