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First trip to Europe for skiing

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manhattanskier Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Feb 14, 2004 Posts: 415 Location:	Posted: Oct 26, 2009 - 10:12 PM GMT Hi: I have two weeks vacation in mid December and am considering going to Europe to ski. I would like: 1) a big interlinked ski area with lots of choices 2) lots of intermediate and beginner terrain. Forget the advanced stuff, never ski that. 3) reasonable prices. I am on a budget. 4) a place that will hopefully be largely open by that time Anyone have any suggestions. The first place I've seen that might fit the bill is Innsbruck. Anyone have any thoughts on that? Also, in general is it better to by a package by buying at least the airfare and hotel together or is it best to try to purchase everything seperately. Finally, any sense of what lift ticket prices are like there? Are they generally the same as in the U.S., more, less? Thanks in advance for any help.

bobbutts Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Nov 20, 2006 Posts: 419 Location:Central NH	Posted: Oct 26, 2009 - 10:32 PM GMT Well this is kind of obvious, but it's my only advice on your EU trip. Avoid Chamonix.. It's not really linked and the terrain choice is tilted advanced.

kappcity06 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Aug 17, 2007 Posts: 170 Location:HobokenNJ	Posted: Oct 26, 2009 - 10:34 PM GMT The Zermatt region of Switzerland is like the Whistler of Europe. It's good. Lots of interconnected mountains not to bad price wise if you aren't looking for 5-Star and they have a glacier that's always open (for the most part) so you should have plenty of options.

jimk Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Aug 27, 2004 Posts: 747 Location:Wash DC area	Posted: Oct 26, 2009 - 11:42 PM GMT What’s your budget and do you intend to ski two full weeks? Flying over there to base yourself in Innsbruck and skiing only it’s local areas like Axam Lizum and Stubai Glacier is sort of like flying to LA and skiing only Bear Mountain & Snow Summit instead of continuing north to Mammoth. Having said that, it might be neat to do a hardcore week of skiing in nearby St. Anton (90 minutes) and then a week in Innsbruck of mixed sightseeing and a few days of skiing the local areas. At that time of year you’ll want to go high, another choice within a couple hours train/drive of Innsbruck are Solden/Obergurgl, which I think has more mellow terrain than St. Anton. Since it’s your first trip you might want to go with somebody like http://www.ski-europe.com/ , they could probably work with you for a one week package at ski resort and one week extension to do your own thing out of Innsbruck. But if you stick to just two places like St. Anton and Innsbruck you could probably do it yourself and save, unless they find you a real good airfare. Here’s the best single source to scout out European ski destinations: http://www.wtss.co.uk/ They also put out a great book with same title, it’s in many larger public libraries. ski-europe where to ski

playoutside Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Mar 23, 2007 Posts: 137 Location:Near Boston and Northern NJ	Posted: Oct 27, 2009 - 12:37 AM GMT Austria or France will be cheaper then Switzerland. I would recommend a package. Usually they inc breakfast and dinner at your hotel, sometimes inlcludes a guide, sometimes includes some apres ski activities. I'm not sure on snow in December, think it can be a crapshoot like NE. I've skied Zell Am See (Austria) and had a blast and enjoyed the skiing. There were beginners though experts in our group and we had plenty of skiing for every person. I've also taken a trip to St Anton. Great skiing, but I found the town to be stuffy and we had a lot of fog, so that trip wasn't as memorable. Lots of diff terrain, but I think there is more advanced in St Anton than Zell am See. ALso did a trip to Morzine/Portes du Soleil (France). It is north of Chamonix. Really beautiful village, tons of terrain. Our group had a guide 2 days who skied our butts off. We would leave from one side of the valley and end up returning on the other. Great fun, food. Not sure any of these are appropriate for a December trip. We went in late January which was considered early season. __________ Blue Hills 12/30\|Nashoba 1/4 1/14 2/3\|Sunapee 1/10\|Ragged 1/16\|Pico 1/23\|Ascutney 1/24\|Breckenridge 2/7 2/9\|Keystone 2/8\|Yawgoo 2/13\|Wachusett 2/20\|Bromley 2/21\|2/27 Middlebury\|Suicide6 2/28\|Burke 3/5\|Sugarbush 3/6\|MRG 3/7\|Sunday River 3/12-13\|Okemo 3/27

Skileader Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jan 15, 2002 Posts: 903 Location:Long Island N.Y.	Posted: Oct 27, 2009 - 6:02 AM GMT Edited: Oct 29, 2009 - 5:51 AM GMT I liked St. Anton. Most ski areas brag about 50 trails. They brag about over 50 lifts. Everything from pomas to trams. In France Les Arc , Val des ser, Tignes area or Trois Valley (pricey). Be advised the local breakfast varies. Austria, Germany, Switzerland coffee, rolls cheese cold cuts, maybe hard boiled egg. France Light coffee (au lait) pastries, butter, jam, croissants. This is generally included, family style. Forget scrambled eggs, pancakes etc. Depending on your preferences a 2 star gasthouse or pension spartan, but clean reasonable. Mom & Pop owned. Most have a sink in your room but toilet & shower is down the hall, which is unlit at night. They put little doorbell style lighted buttons every so often and a push gets you a minute or so of light. Aus, Ger, Swi, aren't real big on heat but give you huge down comforters. I can't speak for 3+ star accomidations as I'm cheap. Gather info from the local countries tourist offices in NYC. Also ther are free lodging services at most RR stations in Europe. __________ Bob P.

jamesdeluxe Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jan 05, 2003 Posts: 505 Location:South Orange, NJ	Posted: Oct 27, 2009 - 3:49 PM GMT Planning a destination trip to the Alps in mid-December is a gamble, kinda similar to the northeast. You may get lucky and nail great conditions, but anytime before Xmas is a roll of the dice. You can miminize your exposure by going to a "snow-sure" (as the Brits say) region -- that means high altitude. __________ Harvey Road: www.NYSkiBlog.com

porter Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 522 Location:Waynesville, NC	Posted: Oct 27, 2009 - 9:24 PM GMT Innsbruck would be a great option. It will have the best choices of budget hotels and dining. The train station has frequent and direct departures to everywhere you want to go. It's about a two hour train ride from Munich, which probably is about the cheapest place to fly to close to skiing. The local areas ... about 9 or so ... are not huge, except for Stubai, and not really connected (though Axams is connected to a smaller resort). The big connected areas are like Leogang, Schladming, Kitzbuhel, Brixen/Skiwelt, St. Anton, and others. You could easily mix in days at the local resorts in IBK (where you can ride the resort busses for free) with days at places a bit further away, like Solden and St. Anton, which are about an hour or so away by train. The trains are set up so you can catch one at 7.30, be there for the opening, ski all day and take one home at 6 pm, arriving in time for dinner. IBK is a world heritage site and could easily occupy a day. With Stubai there, even if there is hardly any snow you will likely be able to ski on the snowfields. If you are going for two weeks, it might make sense to spend a week in IBK and then a week at another resort, like Kitzbuhel. Kitzbuhel is a huge area and surrounded by gobs of other huge areas, most of which you can ride the bus to for free. Kitzbuhel is about 90 minutes from IBK. While you'll likely spend more in hotels (Kitz does have a hostel, Snowbunnys) you'll be able to more easily explore more far flung areas. __________ hasta el nieve -- mais il n'y'pas niege!

goodoledays Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: May 27, 2009 Posts: 68 Location:Nashville TN	Posted: Oct 27, 2009 - 9:45 PM GMT Perhaps you would consider Sweden? It might be a little higher north, so maybe a better bet for December? I have been here once, since my company is based in Sweden, and found it to be a pretty cool place. it's actually several places that are interconnected with differnet "bases" and terain. It's called Are with a little circle over the "a"... Åre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85re_(ski_area) Where ever you go, have fun!

manhattanskier Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Feb 14, 2004 Posts: 415 Location:	Posted: Oct 27, 2009 - 9:51 PM GMT Thanks for all the information everyone. Porter thinks for the mentioning the Hostels. I forgot about them and that could be a inexpensive option that could even help me hook up with other skiers. JimK, thanks for the sites, they seem very helpfull. One bad thing right off the bat for doing it myself is the airline tickets to any destination there - Munich, Vienna or Innsbruck seem to be in the $900 to $1,000 range. Yikes! Is that normal? I thought this would be the low season for Europe and I would get some $500 to $600 deals. Also, the coding for ski trails is throwing me off. I read that in Europe Green is easy, blue is intermediate, red is advanced and black is expert. But on the maps I see there is no green at all - only blue, red and black. So that of that matches what of our trail coding system? BTW, how are they in Europe on grooming? Do they do a lot of it? That would be a plus for me - I am a groomer boomer, not a powder person. Thanks again.

arik Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jun 01, 2006 Posts: 163 Location:NYC; Southern VT	Posted: Oct 28, 2009 - 1:38 AM GMT Edited: Oct 28, 2009 - 1:43 AM GMT oops links didn't worked, fixed below

arik Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jun 01, 2006 Posts: 163 Location:NYC; Southern VT	Posted: Oct 28, 2009 - 1:38 AM GMT Edited: Oct 28, 2009 - 1:44 AM GMT Geneva has cheaper flights from new york ($560 on Swiss Air booked via Kayak.com). There are many great ski resorts close to Geneva both in switzerland and France. Verbier, Saas Fee, Zermat, Le Cluzaz, Megeve, literally over 20 excellent resorts within 2 hours by train (in Switzerland) or road (in France). This year the dollar has really declined against the Euro (are you SURE you don't want to go out west, the snow is better there), but not so much against the Swiss Franc, so I think Switzerland might be actually cheaper this year than France. Also Swiss rail sells a round trip transfer ticket on the train, the swiss transfer ticket, for a big discount which makes getting to the resort in switzerland cheaper and easier than in France. Page title: The switzerland national tourist website is promoting special package deals through a tour operator called World on Skis, $746 for a week in Zermat with breakfast and lift tickets jumped out at me, as did $756 for a week in St. Moritz. Page title: Austria is always cheaper in terms of hotels and lift tickets, but flights to Austria cost more. You could fly nonstop from NYC to Zurich for less than flying to Vienna. Zurich is close to western Austria, Vorarlberg region, Lech and St. Anton are in that part of Austria and are both outstanding! A great resource is the Time Out guide to skiing in Europe, it is published by time out magazine's London office, is available through Amazon.com, is well written and informative. Have fun planning..... Arik

trackbiker Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Nov 26, 2004 Posts: 1167 Location:Eastern PA	Posted: Oct 28, 2009 - 2:47 AM GMT Wherever you go, don't be afraid to check out pensions. They're small hotels that are usually family run, very nice, and not much more expensive than hostels. The owners usually take great pride in them and are very accommodating. I've even had owners insist I take a lunch with me after breakfast. Be sure to check out reviews though. Let's Go Europe is a great reference for less expensive lodgings. You'll be there early season so don't be afraid to haggle on price, especially for multiple days. You'll also likely meet some people to ski with or who have recommendations for skiing, restaurants, etc. at breakfast.

jimk Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Aug 27, 2004 Posts: 747 Location:Wash DC area	Posted: Oct 28, 2009 - 12:34 PM GMT Edited: Oct 28, 2009 - 8:57 PM GMT By the way, Porter made the snowjournal hall of fame with some of his past Europe/World travel posts. You may find these informative and inspirational: Austria ski trip Austrian ski lifts world travel PS: story on Solden/Obergurgl that appeared today on the web/CNN:CNN story

iskiatomic Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: May 22, 2004 Posts: 596 Location:SOUTHINGTON, CT	Posted: Oct 28, 2009 - 6:26 PM GMT Short and sweet, many have talked Innsbruck. I agree. Take a run in the bobsled, half price of what they charge at Lake Placid, and check out the hot wine. KC __________ DON'T LET FEAR AND COMMON SENSE STAND IN YOUR WAY

porter Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 522 Location:Waynesville, NC	Posted: Oct 28, 2009 - 9:26 PM GMT Quote: By the way, Porter made the snowjournal hall of fame with some of his past Europe/World travel posts. You may find these informative and inspirational: Austria ski trip Austrian ski lifts world travel Wow -- hall of fame? Anyway, that was a great trip. __________ hasta el nieve -- mais il n'y'pas niege!

rstuthill Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Apr 03, 2005 Posts: 1631 Location:Bolton, CT	Posted: Oct 29, 2009 - 3:55 PM GMT Quote: By the way, Porter made the snowjournal hall of fame with some of his past Europe/World travel posts. Yep, he did it while living in North Carolina, too. Pretty impressive. Although I am not exactly sure why he did not win NELSAP'er of the Year either of those years.

brklynskier Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jul 06, 2005 Posts: 400 Location:Brooklyn, NY	Posted: Oct 29, 2009 - 5:50 PM GMT Going in December is a huge gamble. Snowmaking is quite limited over there. If it hasn't dumped, your doomed. Also don't expect the trails marked closed. We were in the french region of Portes du Soleil in April. We were going down a slope and the snow just disappeared. We had to walk about 300 meters down the slope through the mud to get to the lift. Where there are marked blue and green pistes, the grooming is ok. They do not groom as extensively or as thoroughly as we do. Fares to Geneva and Zurich can be reasonable cities to fly into. There are bus and train connections to many of the ski towns. I recommend a bus over the train because most of the train trips require a connection. (It's a pain schlepping your ski gear through the major train stations). There is a nonstop from NYC to Lyon, which can be inexpensive and gets you close to the alps. Also, there is a TGV train station at Charles De Gaulle in Paris. You can fly to Paris and take the train to Albertville or Cahmonix (not inexpensive cities) I strongly recommend buying a package that includes the ground transfers in Europe. After a red eye flight, finding the right bus or train can be a little confusing. Finally, if you ski in France, make sure that you purchase insurance with your lift ticket. It adds a couple of euros but you won't have to pay if the ski patrol needs to come for you.

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