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skier man Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Feb 22, 2007 Posts: 444 Location:Franklin, MA	Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 1:35 PM GMT Quote: Anyone overly concerned with CO2 emissions can do their part and stop breathing My neighbor drives everywhere in his prius because he says to run to places put more CO2 in the atmoshere

bobbutts Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Nov 20, 2006 Posts: 609 Location:Central NH	Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 3:36 PM GMT I like this quote "We've seen some erratic winters in recent years," Riehle said. "The mood swings of Mother Nature, perhaps, are deeper than they used to be." The trend is concerning, and it generally seems to fit in with a GW scenario. Be careful about putting too much stock into one study and especially one cold or warm event. Not sure if anyone read the actual study (I didn't) but snowfall is highly variable, different observers will even measure the same storm at the same location with and come up with different results. And snowfall totals are a crappy climate measurement anyway. Also most stations that measure temperature are located in "Urban Heat Islands" so just based on that the trend is expected to be going up. It's possible, maybe likely that these factors were considered in the study, but the point I wanted to make is that this is not a simple thing to track.

bobbutts Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Nov 20, 2006 Posts: 609 Location:Central NH	Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 3:37 PM GMT Quote: Increased co2 emmissions would initially increase cold temps on the planet. Plus our weather "history" does not go back far enough to make any educated guesses about trends in weather patterns. I believe that we are still comming out of a the "mini" ice age. hogwash

flexon4237 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Dec 09, 2007 Posts: 197 Location:Hudson, ME	Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 3:43 PM GMT I have to say overall I'm disappointed in the SJ community on this issue. The facts are the facts. Global warming is happening and we are responsible for some of it. We can take action to minimize the effects,or we can stick our heads in the sand when we get a cold snap and pretend it's not happening. When we get to the point when the only snow is man-made I'll stop skiing - it won't be a Nature based pursuit at that point. It's easy to dismiss or make light of the global warming issue. What's difficult is to confront it head on. Of course there are a few fringe scientists out there saying man is not responsible, but I would urge everyone to really take an objective look at the facts. Okay, I'm done preaching.

rocket21 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 13, 2001 Posts: 8400 Location:USA	Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 3:55 PM GMT Edited: Jan 13, 2008 - 3:55 PM GMT Quote: I have to say overall I'm disappointed in the SJ community on this issue. The facts are the facts. Global warming is happening... Global warming is not fact, it is a theory, the popular hypothesis being that CO2 causes global temperatures to rise. I question any scientist who pronounces theory 'fact,' especially one of which we have very little knowledge. __________ NewEnglandSkiHistory.com

flexon4237 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Dec 09, 2007 Posts: 197 Location:Hudson, ME	Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 4:21 PM GMT Well, gravity is just a theory too.

bobbutts Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Nov 20, 2006 Posts: 609 Location:Central NH	Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 4:23 PM GMT Edited: Jan 13, 2008 - 4:25 PM GMT Quote: Global warming is not fact, it is a theory, the popular hypothesis being that CO2 causes global temperatures to rise. I question any scientist who pronounces theory 'fact,' especially one of which we have very little knowledge. Actually Rocket.. Global warming is a fact plain and simple. The debate centers around whether or not this warming is caused by human activities (Anthropogenic Global Warming) or simply natural cycles and what that means for the future. I question any scientist who fails to see the very obvious warming trend. Also the evidence supporting AGW is quite strong and scientific consensus supports it. I am in that camp as well, but with the caveat that there is alot of bad information from both sides and often the data is not as clear as it would seem. Finally here's another indicator of warming in our neck of the woods: http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2005/3002/

nelsap Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Nov 21, 2001 Posts: 3649 Location:Saratoga Springs, NY	Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 4:33 PM GMT Cool graph - one thing that is interesting is that the decrease begins around 1880, well before much of the CO2 we've put in the atmosphere was there. Jeremy __________ Jeremy Davis

mapnut Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jul 31, 2002 Posts: 5060 Location:New York City	Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 5:11 PM GMT Hey meteorologists, does it make sense to have warmer temperatures and increased snowfall at the same time? There seems to be a trend in the northeast to wetter weather, which means more snow when it's cold and more rain when it's not. A warmer atmosphere holds more moisture. Certainly so far this season we have seen a lot of snow and a lot of rain. The reported snowfall totals won't subtract the amount melted by the rain.

lscski Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 13, 2004 Posts: 403 Location:Morrisville vt	Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 6:11 PM GMT Quote: Actually Rocket.. Global warming is a fact plain and simple. The debate centers around whether or not this warming is caused by human activities (Anthropogenic Global Warming) or simply natural cycles and what that means for the future. So how old is this planet? And how long have we been keeping "actual" records of the earths weather? Sorry butts, but I don't think that we can actually say that we have any grip on what the weather "patterns" are __________ Praise be to Ullr

bobbutts Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Nov 20, 2006 Posts: 609 Location:Central NH	Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 7:18 PM GMT Quote: So how old is this planet? And how long have we been keeping "actual" records of the earths weather? Sorry butts, but I don't think that we can actually say that we have any grip on what the weather "patterns" are What are you sorry about? Here are your statements: "no grip on weather patterns.." Are you serious? Absolutely no grip? or are you exaggerating? Your suggestion about actual records indicates that you dismiss ice cores and other methods of reconstructing climate entirely. While the accuracy is debatable it is also ludicrous to entirely dismiss those as well. And the warming I say is occurring has happened within the past few decades. The evidence is quite plain. Be more specific if you want to debate please, so far not so good.

flexon4237 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Dec 09, 2007 Posts: 197 Location:Hudson, ME	Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 7:39 PM GMT Not trying to sound condescending, but how can anyone capable of object, unbiased, reason still suggest humans are not somewhat responsible for global warming. The evidence is really overwhelming even when you take into account some of the questionable sources. I read the paper everyday and watch the news when I have time. I haven't seen any counter-arguments to human-related global warming lately. I'm sure someone will say there is a media bias, conspiracy theory going on, but I can't buy into that. You may think Al Gore is a nut, but to suggest the global science community is wrong about this just contradicts logic.

lscski Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 13, 2004 Posts: 403 Location:Morrisville vt	Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 8:00 PM GMT global warming and cooling happens in cycles that are hundreds to thousands of years long. not decades. __________ Praise be to Ullr

lscski Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 13, 2004 Posts: 403 Location:Morrisville vt	Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 8:01 PM GMT Quote: Your suggestion about actual records indicates that you dismiss ice cores and other methods of reconstructing climate entirely. While the accuracy is debatable it is also ludicrous to entirely dismiss those as well. and yes I do not totally agree with the accuracy of ice core sampeling. It is a science that is younger than most people on this forum. __________ Praise be to Ullr

bobbutts Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Nov 20, 2006 Posts: 609 Location:Central NH	Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 8:33 PM GMT Quote: global warming and cooling happens in cycles that are hundreds to thousands of years long. not decades. Yes, but we have observed an unusually fast warm up. That is why there are theories out there to explain it. I have to fill in the blanks with you but the fundamental problem with arguments from your type is that you discredit all of the data and then reach a conclusion anyway. You can't have it both ways.

nelsap Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Nov 21, 2001 Posts: 3649 Location:Saratoga Springs, NY	Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 8:38 PM GMT Here's an interesting irony: Snow in Saudi Arabia, Record Cold Coldest winter in 20 years in Saudi Arabia, with snow shutting down some of the northern part of the country (from a few days ago, the day Baghdad had snow) The extremes in weather are seemingly happening more often. The question is - are they really, or are they getting reported more and easier, with the internet? I think its a little of both. Jeremy __________ Jeremy Davis

flexon4237 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Dec 09, 2007 Posts: 197 Location:Hudson, ME	Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 8:49 PM GMT Quote: [quote]global warming and cooling happens in cycles that are hundreds to thousands of years long. not decades. Yes, but we have observed an unusually fast warm up. That is why there are theories out there to explain it. I have to fill in the blanks with you but the fundamental problem with arguments from your type is that you discredit all of the data and then reach a conclusion anyway. You can't have it both ways. [/quote] Or they decide on an opinion first and then seek out information to support their bias.

rocket21 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 13, 2001 Posts: 8400 Location:USA	Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 10:01 PM GMT Quote: Actually Rocket.. Global warming is a fact plain and simple. The debate centers around whether or not this warming is caused by human activities (Anthropogenic Global Warming) or simply natural cycles and what that means for the future. I question any scientist who fails to see the very obvious warming trend. Global warming is not fact. Heck, at this point in time, there is no such thing as a global temperature. The ice age happened before SUVs and oil companies. There was a rain forest in Wisconsin. New England was filled with vineyards at one point in time (hence the Vikings calling it, translated of course, "Wineland." It's very easy to take certain data points and find trends - I do data analysis for a living, I know. It doesn't mean that a broader occurrence is happening. Thirty years ago, many scientists were freaking out about "global cooling" - check it out, I think it even made the cover of Time at one point. I believe that this whole global warming thing could end up being one of the largest financial scams in modern history. I do think, however, there is such thing as climate change. I do not think that CO2 is the chief cause of it - if there were a direct correlation to CO2 and temperature, desertification would have overtaken much of the world by now. And yes, I saw Al Gore's movie, and I thought it was rediculous. Especially the clips of him staring out the window of his limo, looking all depressed. __________ NewEnglandSkiHistory.com

flexon4237 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Dec 09, 2007 Posts: 197 Location:Hudson, ME	Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 10:19 PM GMT Hey Rocket. You watch Fox news huh.

rocket21 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 13, 2001 Posts: 8400 Location:USA	Posted: Jan 13, 2008 - 10:26 PM GMT Quote: Hey Rocket. You watch Fox news huh. Yes, a little, but none of what I discussed in the previous post came from anything I've seen on Fox News. It's not my primary source of news. __________ NewEnglandSkiHistory.com

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