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State Restricts Access to Big Jay

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tom durgin Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 832 Location:Newbury Center, VT	Posted: Dec 18, 2007 - 6:34 PM GMT Vermont To Restrict Skier Access To Big Jay Mountain Robin Smith Staff Writer JAY -- An illegal clear cut of more than 1,000 trees on public land on Big Jay Mountain this summer has prompted the state to close skier access to the area. The Vermont Department of Forests, Parks and Recreation, in cooperation with the Green Mountain Club, Jay Peak Resort and the Vermont Housing and Conservation Board, announced the decision last week. A meeting explaining the decision was Saturday at Jay Peak Resort's stateside base lodge. Skiers and snow boarders will be able to ski in or snowshoe into the woods from Route 242 and then ski and ride down, state officials said in a statement issued Dec. 11. They will not be able to ski over to the Big Jay side from the groomed trails at Jay Peak Resort. No one will be allowed on the clear-cut area. Big Jay is the highest peak in the Green Mountains without a maintained ski trail system, and is part of the Jay State Forest, state officials said. It is the area where a skier was lost Dec. 8 and found the next day. The state bought the property in 1993 to protect the Long Trail and natural habitat, with the help of The Green Mountain Club and the housing board. It's a popular back country ski and hiking area, but it is not within the Jay Peak Resort ski area and is not serviced by the ski area, state officials said. "While we have been concerned about some light cutting in the past by back country skiers and riders at Big Jay, this new cut goes way beyond that and poses significant environmental and safety concerns," said Jonathan Wood, commissioner of the Department of Forests, Parks and Recreation. "We feel it is necessary to keep people off the illegally cut trail, for their own safety as well as to allow for restoration to occur," Wood said. Two area men have been charged with cutting the 2,000-foot swath that is nearly 60 feet wide in places down Big Jay. Paul Poulin, 41, of Newport City and Alan Ritter, 46, of Jay pleaded innocent in September to felony unlawful mischief, according to records in Orleans District Court. Judge Robert Bent released them on condition they not go to Big Jay Mountain. If convicted, they each could face a maximum of up to five years in prison and/or a $5,000 fine each. The men cut hundreds of trees down, according to an affidavit by Warden Sgt. Bradley Mann. The swath cut on Big Jay runs down a cliff face, across a brook, and ranges from 16 to 65 feet across, according to reports from state foresters, Mann said. Poulin told Mann that he had skied off trail at Jay Peak Resort in the past, Mann said. Officials had said that the men were apparently trying to build a private ski trail on the mountain. A tram operator at Jay Peak Resort in July saw the clear cut in the state forest and called the state, Mann said. State and Green Mountain Club officials saw fresh cuttings on July 15 and found equipment. They later found the two men at the equipment and followed them, according to affidavits. The two eventually admitted what they did, officials said. State forester Jim Horton estimated the value of the cut trees at $47,883, including $11,500 for trees four to 16 inches in diameter, Mann said. Neither Poulin nor Ritter has a record. Poulin is a self-employed contractor, and Ritter is a self-employed financial advisor, records show.

Otter Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Apr 16, 2002 Posts: 184 Location:Brownsville Vt.	Posted: Dec 18, 2007 - 6:58 PM GMT I think they should be drawn and quartered!!!! Or better yet, hung by their ???? from the tram!!!!

riverc0il Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jan 05, 2002 Posts: 2858 Location:Ashland, NH	Posted: Dec 19, 2007 - 2:26 AM GMT What is the source of this article? I attended the meeting and have a full write up posted to my web page for those interested in more details. __________ TheSnowWay.com

LASTRRUN Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 18, 2001 Posts: 827 Location:	Posted: Dec 19, 2007 - 5:51 PM GMT I have been concerned for quite a while about the popularity of tree skiing. I define this is areas other than established ski trails and glades. Ski trails and glades do enough damage to the environment as it is. Since these are established areas the damage can be mitigated. Unfortunately the damages caused by tree skiing goes unabated __________ lastrun

tom durgin Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 832 Location:Newbury Center, VT	Posted: Dec 19, 2007 - 5:53 PM GMT Quote: What is the source of this article? I attended the meeting and have a full write up posted to my web page for those interested in more details. Oops! This is from the Burlington Free Press. Tom

wawasbdr Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Dec 15, 2007 Posts: 16 Location:Lawndale	Posted: Dec 19, 2007 - 5:53 PM GMT

jb66 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jun 24, 2004 Posts: 1303 Location:	Posted: Dec 19, 2007 - 9:03 PM GMT Not to pick a fight with BFP, but I think Camel's Hump is higher than Big Jay and has no ski area on it. With Jay having so much tree skiing anyway, I think closing the hike to Big Jay to this gash is not that big a deal. Plenty o' woods to choose from.

tom durgin Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 832 Location:Newbury Center, VT	Posted: Dec 19, 2007 - 9:14 PM GMT Quote: Not to pick a fight with BFP, but I think Camel's Hump is higher than Big Jay and has no ski area on it. With Jay having so much tree skiing anyway, I think closing the hike to Big Jay to this gash is not that big a deal. Plenty o' woods to choose from. You're right on both counts.

photogf128 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Apr 10, 2004 Posts: 2238 Location:MRV Vermont	Posted: Dec 19, 2007 - 10:06 PM GMT I think this was pretty much a given months ago after it happened. Too many don't respect the resource and I'm talking about the people that would ski it so the state had no choice. I have no doubt that a few will attempt it anyways. Left alone for a few years it will come back and then perhaps it will be opened back up for skiing. __________ Skiing is the only sport where you spend an arm and a leg to break an arm and a leg.

riverc0il Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jan 05, 2002 Posts: 2858 Location:Ashland, NH	Posted: Dec 20, 2007 - 3:17 AM GMT Quote: Not to pick a fight with BFP, but I think Camel's Hump is higher than Big Jay and has no ski area on it. With Jay having so much tree skiing anyway, I think closing the hike to Big Jay to this gash is not that big a deal. Plenty o' woods to choose from. You misread. The exact wording is without a trail system. Camel's hump has official and maintained trails while Big Jay does not. Plenty o' tracked out crowded woods to choose from at Jay Peak indeed. Big Jay was a different experience than anything Jay Peak has to offer. If you think it is not a big deal, it is probably because you haven't skied Big Jay. __________ TheSnowWay.com

Dru690 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Oct 08, 2003 Posts: 181 Location:Manhattan	Posted: Dec 20, 2007 - 3:46 AM GMT Thanks for the link to the extended article, Steve... ...I agree with the environmentalist's solution that access be forbidden until the snow pack on Big Jay is greater than six feet. That shouldn't be too difficult for patrol to measure, and patrol should be willing to accept that responsibility, providing it is legal for them to do so.

riverc0il Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jan 05, 2002 Posts: 2858 Location:Ashland, NH	Posted: Dec 20, 2007 - 4:06 AM GMT Edited: Dec 20, 2007 - 4:06 AM GMT Quote: [quote]What is the source of this article? I attended the meeting and have a full write up posted to my web page for those interested in more details. Oops! This is from the Burlington Free Press. Tom[/quote] Looks like the Cal Rec actually. __________ TheSnowWay.com

riverc0il Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jan 05, 2002 Posts: 2858 Location:Ashland, NH	Posted: Dec 20, 2007 - 4:13 AM GMT Quote "Cal-Rec": Big Jay is the highest peak in the Green Mountains without a maintained ski trail system, and is part of the Jay State Forest, state officials said. It is the area where a skier was lost Dec. 8 and found the next day. This is at the least inaccurate and at worst incorrect. The skier was lost off the ridge of the Stateside area. IIRC, she was helped out by people on the long trail as she was near the Cabin on the LT having just recently visited it. The lost skier was not even close to Big Jay. A case could be made that the Stateside ridge is "in the area" of Big Jay but linking the two really confuses the issues. __________ TheSnowWay.com

rogerjack Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Aug 26, 2007 Posts: 509 Location:	Posted: Dec 20, 2007 - 10:29 AM GMT Blah, blah, blah from the finger waggers.

jb66 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jun 24, 2004 Posts: 1303 Location:	Posted: Dec 20, 2007 - 12:09 PM GMT Hey Riv- The article above, and that you quote, says 'ski trail system' no? That's what I read.

riverc0il Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jan 05, 2002 Posts: 2858 Location:Ashland, NH	Posted: Dec 20, 2007 - 12:33 PM GMT Quote: Hey Riv- The article above, and that you quote, says 'ski trail system' no? That's what I read. There is a ski trail system on Camel's Hump!! It is not operated as a ski area with lifts but there is a 'ski' trail system. __________ TheSnowWay.com

jb66 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jun 24, 2004 Posts: 1303 Location:	Posted: Dec 20, 2007 - 12:37 PM GMT Maintained ski trails? I know there are hiking trails that you can ski, snowshoe, posthole, crawl, whatever on, but I don't recall 'maintained ski trails'. Please enlighten me...

tom durgin Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 832 Location:Newbury Center, VT	Posted: Dec 20, 2007 - 3:12 PM GMT Oops again - yes, the article was from the Cal Rec. I, too, took the remark about "no trail system" to mean no ski trail system, per se. That is, you can ski a lot of hiking trails when the snowpack allows, but that doesn't mean they were designed specifically for skiing.

telemark Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Aug 03, 2004 Posts: 153 Location:Arlington, MA	Posted: Dec 20, 2007 - 7:27 PM GMT Edited: Dec 20, 2007 - 7:28 PM GMT Quote: Maintained ski trails? I know there are hiking trails that you can ski, snowshoe, posthole, crawl, whatever on, but I don't recall 'maintained ski trails'. Please enlighten me... I'm guessing they're referring to this: Camels Hump Skiers Association

flexon4237 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Dec 09, 2007 Posts: 197 Location:Hudson, ME	Posted: Dec 21, 2007 - 1:15 PM GMT Dick Durrance once said that "they don't grow trees so close together that you can't ski between them"

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