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Ragged Mountain

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dcapbtls Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jun 11, 2007 Posts: 60 Location:	Posted: Jul 19, 2007 - 1:42 AM GMT Long time reader........new member. Active New Hampshire skier........interested in all things skiing. I have been watching SJ lately, but haven't seen any news on Ragged. Checked out their website yesterday....new logo and an announcement on season ticket rates. Adult ticket $199 - as a means to re-introduce the mountain to folks. Hearing great things about behind the scene improvements. Also, does anyone have any updates on Tenney Mountain?

WoodCore Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jan 13, 2002 Posts: 3134 Location:CT	Posted: Jul 19, 2007 - 1:46 AM GMT Quote: Long time reader........new member. Active New Hampshire skier........interested in all things skiing. Welcome aboard! __________ "Freedom often leads, but responsibility always follows close behind."

millerm277 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: May 28, 2006 Posts: 1133 Location:Somerset County, NJ	Posted: Jul 19, 2007 - 1:57 AM GMT From their press release, it says they're going to spend 1.5-2 million to improve the snowmaking and golf course....that's a good start.

joshua segal Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jul 12, 2004 Posts: 5943 Location:NH	Posted: Jul 20, 2007 - 12:32 PM GMT When something sounds too good to be true, it usually is. Killington under new management raised prices. Every other area that changed ownership over the summer either raised prices or kept them about the same. To drop prices this precipitously smells of a cash-flow crisis. I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot poll. It's not just available for locals. It's available for everyone. __________ Joshua Segal

skifastinvt Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 12, 2002 Posts: 61 Location:	Posted: Jul 20, 2007 - 2:04 PM GMT Joshua, I respectfully disagree. You don't plunk down $5-$7 million for a struggling resort without a few years of operating capital behind you. I think the management realizes that many of the loyal skiers, passholders (and employees) from the past few years have felt cheated. I believe the $199.00 pass is intended to re-introduce the product. If this company is planning on turning a long term profit, they are going to do it with real estate, not lift tickets/season passes. What better way to "re-introduce" a quality product than with a $199.00 pass. Perhaps the discount pass will peak the interest of loyal Sunapee, Gunstock, and Waterville weekend warriors from Boston/North Shore who may be interested in a future vacation home. I don't know anything about the new company and their business practices, but I do know a bit about the ski industry (and Ragged Mt.). Bob Fries (the new resort president) is a well respected executive in the ski business. If anyone can turn the operation around, it's Bob. You know as well as I do that Ragged is a gem in the rough. It needs a serious polish and seven day a week hands on management. I think they're on the right track, and fully intend to visit the "new" Ragged Mountain in 2007-2008. Best of luck to Bob and his new team.

joshua segal Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jul 12, 2004 Posts: 5943 Location:NH	Posted: Jul 20, 2007 - 2:32 PM GMT skifastinVT said: Quote: Joshua, I respectfully disagree. You don't plunk down $5-$7 million for a struggling resort without a few years of operating capital behind you. I think the management realizes that many of the loyal skiers, passholders (and employees) from the past few years have felt cheated. I believe the $199.00 pass is intended to re-introduce the product. If this company is planning on turning a long term profit, they are going to do it with real estate, not lift tickets/season passes. What better way to "re-introduce" a quality product than with a $199.00 pass. Perhaps the discount pass will peak the interest of loyal Sunapee, Gunstock, and Waterville weekend warriors from Boston/North Shore who may be interested in a future vacation home. I don't know anything about the new company and their business practices, but I do know a bit about the ski industry (and Ragged Mt.). Bob Fries (the new resort president) is a well respected executive in the ski business. If anyone can turn the operation around, it's Bob. You know as well as I do that Ragged is a gem in the rough. It needs a serious polish and seven day a week hands on management. I think they're on the right track, and fully intend to visit the "new" Ragged Mountain in 2007-2008. Best of luck to Bob and his new team. I certainly see where you're coming from and I hope you are right, but the way I see it is as follows: Ragged will need at least one-season to: 1. Make sure the snowmaking is working properly. 2. Make sure the lifts are operating properly 3. make sure that mountain itself is running smoothly If this $199 deal is legit (and not a cash flow desperate measure as I suggested earlier), it will backfire big-time if they don't get their act 100% (or even 90%) together. To do it right in their first year after the last several disaster-seasons is unlikely. If I were adequately funded and running the place, I might reduce prices slightly for 2007-8. But my emphasis would be on developing a management team and working out the operational bugs. (I am sure Mr. Fries is very competent, he can't do it by himself and he can't make it happen overnight.) Then, when I know I can deliver the product, I would work to make the 2008-9 season the big push. Need a comparison? Check out Tenney Mountain! __________ Joshua Segal

skifastinvt Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 12, 2002 Posts: 61 Location:	Posted: Jul 20, 2007 - 3:57 PM GMT Good points.... It's been awhile since I've seen the innerworkings of the Mt., so you prob. have a better understanding of what needs attention. Snowmaking is going to be a long term project. As long as the pond is usable (silt dredged, etc.), pumps are checked/rebuilt, and main water/air lines are given some attention, they should be OK for the season. Long term, they may consider blowing up the old "mess" of a system and starting fresh. A system similar to Crotched may be a good (albeit expensive) solution for Ragged. Lifts could be tough, but nothing a summer of detail can't fix. The six-pack should be good to go. Spear will need some attention with a long term view of replacement. Northeast peak lift could/should be removed. Not sure on the condition of Barnyard Double. The Mt. could operate without Village Green if they had to. Midweek operation of Six-pack, Spear, and Barnyard would be much easier to staff and afford. If the condition of the Village Green lift was OK, I'd only operate Village Green early season and busy weekends/holidays. Don't forget..it's a horrible novice/kids lift, as it is not variable speed! Trails (with exception of basic attention), base lodge and skier services are turn key. In my opinion, one of the biggest weaknesses of the mountain was lack of a strong on-site manager who could make decisions. With Bob Fries in place, a solid team should form around him.

skiingfanatic68 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: May 09, 2004 Posts: 442 Location:Greencastle, PA	Posted: Jul 20, 2007 - 4:43 PM GMT Quote: Joshua, I respectfully disagree. You don't plunk down $5-$7 million for a struggling resort without a few years of operating capital behind you. I think the management realizes that many of the loyal skiers, passholders (and employees) from the past few years have felt cheated. I believe the $199.00 pass is intended to re-introduce the product. If this company is planning on turning a long term profit, they are going to do it with real estate, not lift tickets/season passes. What better way to "re-introduce" a quality product than with a $199.00 pass. Perhaps the discount pass will peak the interest of loyal Sunapee, Gunstock, and Waterville weekend warriors from Boston/North Shore who may be interested in a future vacation home. I don't know anything about the new company and their business practices, but I do know a bit about the ski industry (and Ragged Mt.). Bob Fries (the new resort president) is a well respected executive in the ski business. If anyone can turn the operation around, it's Bob. You know as well as I do that Ragged is a gem in the rough. It needs a serious polish and seven day a week hands on management. I think they're on the right track, and fully intend to visit the "new" Ragged Mountain in 2007-2008. Best of luck to Bob and his new team. I agree with Skifast, personally having worked under Bob Fries at Stratton, he wouldn't have taken the position if they were going to pull a fast one on people. That is not Bob's style or image he convey in the industry. When Bob was hired at Stratton as President, we were in a similiar situation as Ragged. The lifts and snowmaking were in desperate need of repair and skier numbers were down for 3 consecutive years. In his first year at Stratton, skier visits were up and initial investment of 5 millions was done Intrawest. At the time we did a small increase in season pass pricing but offered additional incentives to ski Stratton through ski and stay packages and the Stratton Card for discount lift tickets. Yes I could see your concern, but I do think they are making the right choice to reintroduce the mountain to public at a lower prices because of the money problems they had over the past couple of years since the six-pack was installed. Last year they didn't open until January and were for 2 1/2 months with 35% to 40% open. Spear Mountain didn't even open for the season. Their goal is to get Spear Mountain back open this year and address the rest of the snowmaking system. Look no further than Bolton Valley almost duplicate situation as Ragged and look at it now. The Muellers were the same in their first year of operation when they took over Okemo. The track record does work if done correctly and with Bob Fries overseeing it, the future looks very bright.

joshua segal Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jul 12, 2004 Posts: 5943 Location:NH	Posted: Jul 20, 2007 - 5:58 PM GMT To skiingfanatic68 and skifastinvt: I hope you are right and I am wrong. I think your assessment of lifts and snowmaking are relatively close to accurate. Although you may have overstated the readiness of the 6-pack. I do disagree with you assessment of the lodges: The rest rooms were one step better than outhouses and there was a lot of cosmetic deterioration. Although I suspect if they put as little as $50K into the two major base-buildings, they would be quite adequate. Ultimately, we'll all know better in 10-months. My suspicion is that the collection of things that need to be done exceed what can normally done in the two weeks before the start of the season. Have any of you been there to see if anything is happening on the hill? __________ Joshua Segal

dcapbtls Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jun 11, 2007 Posts: 60 Location:	Posted: Jul 20, 2007 - 6:17 PM GMT I can understand that once you have been in the ski industry awhile, and live through the death or illness of a mountain or two, it is easy to be pessimistic. However, based on the things the new owners are saying, and their actions, I am inclined to cut them some slack. I have heard from reliable sources that two things will be happening in the very near future: A complete overhaul of the snowmaking system, and the complete rewiring (electrical) of all lifts.

johnskiismore Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Aug 29, 2003 Posts: 920 Location:North Woodstock, NH	Posted: Jul 20, 2007 - 6:20 PM GMT I drove by the place two weeks ago, drove into the parking lot, didn't really see anything going on. But I could've missed things because I did just drive in, quick look, drove out. Did see someone walking up Town Meeting. __________ Screw My Car, My Body Climbed Mount Washington!

dlssf Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jul 26, 2007 Posts: 1 Location:	Posted: Jul 26, 2007 - 10:14 PM GMT This seems to be the place to learn about Ragged....I just bought a place in Bristol and am looking for my best bet ski mountain. We figured it was between Ragged and Tenney, until we found out that Tenney wasn't open last year. We heard about the new ownership at Ragged and were very excited - especially to see the season pass prices...but now, after reading all of these posts I'm not so sure there will be any skiing there this year. I was actually up there last weekend and didn't see any activity on the mountain (well, it was a Sunday). It didn't look like anyone has begun any major projects there. Do any of you long time Ragged fans have recommendations for this newbie? Is the season ticket going to be a bust? Any ideas where we can get additional information on the progress? Thanks for any input. __________ dlssf

nhdownhiller Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 10, 2005 Posts: 240 Location:Concord, NH	Posted: Jul 27, 2007 - 12:09 AM GMT I've been there over the past 10 years, and the first few were great, always signs of improvements in the infrastructure with the exception of the bathrooms. After the 6-pack was installed, improvements seemed to come to a screeching halt, giving me the impression the brothers stretched themselves a bit too thin. The past few winters have been especially hard on the smaller mountains, placing a heavy demand on the snowmaking capabilities. Combine that with a few unfortunate events (lightning strike on the 6-pack, spear mountain triple needing sheaves among other things) and mother nature not cooperating temperature wise and you have a nice crappy season. I was there before we got snow, and after, had free passes and had to use them. I figure this next season will be interesting to say the least, the season after that (if they survive) should be great.

millerm277 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: May 28, 2006 Posts: 1133 Location:Somerset County, NJ	Posted: Jul 27, 2007 - 2:54 AM GMT @Dlssf, they'll be open next year, and they most likely have a good amount of money with the new owners, and Bob Fries is probably the most capable person out there to turn the mountain around.

joshua segal Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jul 12, 2004 Posts: 5943 Location:NH	Posted: Jul 31, 2007 - 10:18 PM GMT Last year at this time, Ragged hired a man who appeared to me to be a very competent manager. When I met him in Novemebr, he was full of ideas and had a great attitude. By early December, you could already see the frustration and he was gone by mid-December. The moral of the story: even a great manager needs to have time and money to move things forward. As we read on other threads of Crotched running new snowmaking pipes, Attitash installing their new snow-guns, similar reports at Mt. Snow; I have to affirm my earlier reservations about this super-discount ticket that Ragged is offering. Why is no activity being reported at the base area of Ragged Mt. if all things are rosy? There is too much that needs to be done to wait until November. __________ Joshua Segal

skiingfanatic68 Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: May 09, 2004 Posts: 442 Location:Greencastle, PA	Posted: Jul 31, 2007 - 11:47 PM GMT Quote: Last year at this time, Ragged hired a man who appeared to me to be a very competent manager. When I met him in Novemebr, he was full of ideas and had a great attitude. By early December, you could already see the frustration and he was gone by mid-December. The moral of the story: even a great manager needs to have time and money to move things forward. As we read on other threads of Crotched running new snowmaking pipes, Attitash installing their new snow-guns, similar reports at Mt. Snow; I have to affirm my earlier reservations about this super-discount ticket that Ragged is offering. Why is no activity being reported at the base area of Ragged Mt. if all things are rosy? There is too much that needs to be done to wait until November. Keep in mind Magic went under new ownership last year around this time and was able to accomplish alot in a short amount of time. I remember when the American Express 6-pack went in at Stratton, alot of locals and employees wondering why it was taking so long to put the lift in. The towers were not dropped into place until mid-September and they had to have the wiring and cable installed for the early November opening date. The snowmaking was the same way, pipes were dragged up the mountain late in the Summer, but everything was ready for opening day. The lift itself was load tested in the last week of October. Yes I do agree it might be cutting it close but if we are basing it on their opening date. The previous owners usually planned their openings around the end of November or early December. I wouldn't be surprised if they choose this route for the first year to determine skier traffic patterns to set goals to reach in the coming years. Finally, with RMR-Pacific being a professionally run company, they may be weeding out the weak links in thgeir operations especially the lift, grooming and snowmaking operations. And in return, hiring very experienced individuals to handle those departments, in short amount of time. Not saying the staff there was incompetent, but by the end of the season last year were there any staff actually left that was willing to work for nothing. That might be the challenge they are going through right now, which is hiring people to fill those positions. We will wait and see what develops in the coming months.

skifastinvt Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 12, 2002 Posts: 61 Location:	Posted: Aug 01, 2007 - 1:29 PM GMT I think skiingfanatic is right on track. Honestly, I'm somewhat surprised at how early Attitash and Mt. Snow are doing their work. Even with deep pockets, it's still important to manage your cash flow. Lots of $ going out the door in August, but not much (except season passes) coming in. Unless you are doing a major lift install, most off-season ski area work can be done in Sept. -Nov. I'm pretty sure that Ragged is running with a skeleton crew with the plan to ramp up in a few months. I will say that finding/keeping quality supervisor level employees seems to have been a challenge at Ragged in the past. Hopefully a strong leader can set a solid foundation. If Joshua doesn't see progress on the hill in September, he may be right. Let's hope the folks at Ragged do what they say they will.

joshua segal Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Jul 12, 2004 Posts: 5943 Location:NH	Posted: Aug 01, 2007 - 10:13 PM GMT Quote: ... I'm pretty sure that Ragged is running with a skeleton crew with the plan to ramp up in a few months. Does this mean they are not operating the golf course? I haven't been there since February, so my specific comments are a collection of third party reports with respect to Ragged Mountain per se; but my "generalizations" are based on 40+ years of skiing and 2007-8 will be my 30th season in the business since I started teaching in 78-79. I've been surprised a few times, but my forecasting tends to be pretty good. __________ Joshua Segal

itzthebigo Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Feb 22, 2005 Posts: 42 Location:	Posted: Aug 01, 2007 - 11:14 PM GMT Edited: Aug 01, 2007 - 11:20 PM GMT I hiked ragged the weekend before last. The golf course is open, it was a gorgeous saturday afternoon and there were maybe a half dozen cars in the parking lot. As far as I could tell there were two people working there, a woman inside the lodge and a younger person working the driving range. The golf course didnt look well taken care of but Im not a golfer so I cant speak with authority on the subject. There appeared to be some work being done to the spear triple, not sure what though. Nothing else being done on the hill that I could see. Snowmaking equipment and piping appeared to be in disrepair. Higher up on the mountain there was what I would call union that was removed. Large diameter pipe that split into three or four other pipes, unfortunatley the memory in my camera was full by this time. Six pack looked to be in good condition but I am not a lift mechanic. There were also a few signed trails in the spooks gorge area that never appeared on any trail maps that I am aware of including karen's dream. Bottom line is I was excited about the new ownership and the pass deals. I showed up hoping to see some work being done on the hill and was dissapointed. Ill check the place out again closer to labor day to make a final decision on the cheap passes. Here are a few pictures I took, there are more in my AZ gallery: Ragged Hike 7/21

nhdownhiller Profile \| Galleries Rank: Member Since: Sep 10, 2005 Posts: 240 Location:Concord, NH	Posted: Aug 01, 2007 - 11:32 PM GMT Spear mountain triple failed inspection last year, needed sheaves if I remember right, which is probably what they are doing. The 6-pack got hit by lightning last year, they may have to replace more cable there as well.

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