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Forums : NELSAP Discussion : NELSAP Discussion
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GAS PRICES

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ciscokid
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Posted: Mar 30, 2007 - 2:28 PM GMT

Just in time for the spring break driving/skiing season gas has spiked to $2.75/gal regular here in Mi.

If gas reaches a certain price does it keep you from reaching your favorite planned skiing destination and stay closer to home?It cost me $50 of gas to ski on a $25 mud slush ticket at BuckHills Tues,what's wrong with that picture?

We argue the cost of spring skiing rates but do we bitch over the cost of reaching our spring skiing destination?

What are your thoughts on these billions of $'s quarterly profits,collusion,greed,etc?Makes the price of a lift ticket look small!

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joshua segal
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Posted: Mar 30, 2007 - 2:37 PM GMT

Interesting question to revisit. Here are 4-old threads on the subject if you want to avoid rehashing old stuff:

http://www.snowjournal.com/page.php?cid=topic9617
http://www.snowjournal.com/page.php?cid=topic9616
http://www.snowjournal.com/page.php?cid=topic5308
http://www.snowjournal.com/page.php?cid=topic7643

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Joshua Segal
photogf128
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Posted: Mar 30, 2007 - 3:25 PM GMT

The price at the pump has little to due with oil company profits but more to due with the price of crude, gasoline in the commodity markets, tension in the oil producing regions, our ability to refine the crude and good old supply and demand.

In the US we currently use 20m barrels a day but only produce 5m so as we all know that is why we are so dependent on foreign oil. The demand is going up right now and with the refineries inability to process the crude into gasoline to keep up with demand the prices go up. We have not built a new refinery in this country in 30 years.

If for any reason theire is a problem in the supply like last year when the Alaskan pipeline basically shut down half of their pipeline due to corrosion, the prices went up. Now the problem that all the commodity traders are worried about is Iran plus several refineries went offline recently and is the reason for the most recent price increase.

There is some good news in that the price of a barrel of crude is currently about $10 less than it was this time last year. Until we get serious about reducing the demand I don't think the price is going down in the future. Globally, there is not much sympathy for what we pay at the pump since in most other countries they pay much more.

I really don'y know how much this really effects the ski business but logically it can't be much of a good thing.

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ciscokid
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Posted: Mar 30, 2007 - 3:26 PM GMT




Yea you're right Josh,seems we get gouged every spring on gas prices,at least they were briefly below $2.00 during "ski season".Those threads were enough.Just irritating.

I'm sure it hurts ski areas bottom lines big time,at least we don't have odd/even days at the pumps like '73/'79,the era in which the NELSAP list grew the fastest.





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ligoneskiing
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Posted: Mar 30, 2007 - 3:47 PM GMT

We went from generally driving from Long Island up to Vermont or at least Massachussets to driving to Connecticut the last couple years. Didn't hurt that the drive time was less as well for my nine year old (lots less are we there yet!)
Rick
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Posted: Mar 30, 2007 - 6:50 PM GMT

A round trip to a ski area for me is about four hours on the road or about a half a tank of gas. Gas would have to be awfully expensive for me to consider a half tank a deal breaker.

What is more important is availability. Does anyone remember the oil embargo and rationing back in the 70's? I had not taken up skiing yet but I remember some ski resorts had ads that guaranteed a local station could fill you up for your drive home.
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Posted: Mar 30, 2007 - 7:13 PM GMT

My 92 Camry and can pull 32 MPG on a warm (above 30 degrees F) day as long as I don't lay into it.

Fuel prices will not impact my spring skiing plans at all.

In fact, it's beginning to look a lot like Tuckermans.
skier man
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Posted: Apr 01, 2007 - 2:15 PM GMT

Good That gas prices are high pepole will get smaller cars and cause less global warming for a longer ski season

ciscokid
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Posted: May 04, 2007 - 1:55 PM GMT

Hate to bring this back up but at $3.25 a gallon for regular and continued $9 billion quarterly profit(Exxon/Mobil)just irks me.I bought E85 ethanol for the minivan for the first last week and that's even at $3 gal.I suppose I'd rather support the US farmer by buying his corn than who knows who.

Yes in comparison we don't pay much to the rest of the world.The oil companies better capitalize while they can,with the hybrids gaining market share and other fuels coming out(hydrogen?)there will be big changes down the road.

Will this effect your summer vacation plans?My commuting costs sure have skyrocketed!At least we briefly had prices below $2 in ski season!

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DrJeff
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Posted: May 04, 2007 - 2:08 PM GMT

One of the biggest issues, and why its doesn't really seem like such a huge deal to most consumers is that they're already used to paying $10 to $15 a gallon for Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts for the AM caffiene buzz
joshua segal
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Posted: May 04, 2007 - 2:28 PM GMT

OK, if you can stand the math, read on:

If you believe AAA and/or IRS, it costs about $0.35 per mile to drive a car not including the price of gasoline.

So at $2.50 per gallon with gas mileage at 25 MPG, that is $0.45 per mile and at $3.75 per gallon with gas mileage at 25 MPG, that is $0.50 per mile.

10% increase in the cost of driving shouldn't discourage very many hardcore skiers. If an average round-trip to a ski area is 250 miles with 3-people in the car, the increase cost comes to less than $4.50 per person. Skip the trip to Starbucks and it's a zero-sum-game

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Joshua Segal
ciscokid
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Posted: May 04, 2007 - 2:56 PM GMT

I know I shouldn't be so irked in comparison to everything else I pay for and it wouldn't keep me from skiing,but how would you feel if the ski areas jacked the prices for a powder day?

Only been to Starbucks a few times but yes I pay an average of over ..35 cents for each shot,stroke when I hit the little white pill.($30.divided by 80 shots+/-)so suddenly the price of gas is starting to look cheaper.(or $1 per ski run roughly per ski day here in Mi.)

And then there's that price per gallon of beer on a warm spring day!

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DrJeff
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Posted: May 04, 2007 - 3:00 PM GMT

Quote:
I know I shouldn't be so irked in comparison to everything else I pay for and it wouldn't keep me from skiing,but how would you feel if the ski areas jacked the prices for a powder day?

Only been to Starbucks a few times but yes I pay an average of over ..35 cents for each shot,stroke when I hit the little white pill.($30.divided by 80 shots+/-)so suddenly the price of gas is starting to look cheaper.(or $1 per ski run roughly per ski day here in Mi.)

And then there's that price per gallon of beer on a warm spring day!


And as we all know, that price per gallon of beer can vary alot!

Back to the gas thing for a minute, especially pertaining to the E85 blend, they had a report on NBC news last night saying that as a result of the corn demand for E85 going up, the price of livestock feed is going up and as a result we will likely see milk heading for $5 a gallon in the near future
bobd
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Posted: May 04, 2007 - 3:01 PM GMT

I don't drink coffee, but I am selling my truck.

I am buying a Vespa Scooter.
See:

http://www.vespausa.com/products/gts.cfm

I think that I can bungy cord my skis and poles to the back sort of and I keep my stuff in the backpack anyway and at 60 miles to a gallon why it will only cost me at $6 a gallon and gee that will be about $7 to drive to Crotched and only $6 to drive to work for the week..........

I do feel for the oil companies. I hope that they make it. It really is remarkable that they can sell us gas so cheaply. Do you think we should start a New England lost oil companies? Does anyone remember Exxon Mobil, how about just Esso or Standard Oil? Instead of chairlifts, we can have pictures of service guys checking dipsticks or washing windshields. Lost gaspumps? ExxonMobil only made a $835,763,894,890,707,890,347,089,127,958,327,582,389,523,498,529,857,923,465,923,487,591,345,891,365,897,023,585.90 this year.

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joshua segal
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Posted: May 04, 2007 - 3:06 PM GMT

Quote:
... how would you feel if the ski areas jacked the prices for a powder day?

Some areas sort of do that by restricting first-hour to season pass holders. However, now that you mention it, I might be willing to pay extra to make first tracks down specific trails for more than one or two runs.

My most memorable ski run was in 1975 at Sugarbush. A two-foot plus storm with no wind and I got to the top of Castlerock just as the patrolman dropped the rope on Rumble.

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Joshua Segal
ciscokid
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Posted: May 04, 2007 - 3:16 PM GMT

Quote:
[quote]... how would you feel if the ski areas jacked the prices for a powder day?

Some areas sort of do that by restricting first-hour to season pass holders. However, now that you mention it, I might be willing to pay extra to make first tracks down specific trails for more than one or two runs.

My most memorable ski run was in 1975 at Sugarbush. A two-foot plus storm with no wind and I got to the top of Castlerock just as the patrolman dropped the rope on Rumble.[/quote]

Now what price per gallon could you put on all that virgin frozen precip Josh?Priceless!Rumbling,hooting and hollering and coming up for air drinking in all that free cold smoke!Just not for sale at any price!

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jimk
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Posted: May 04, 2007 - 4:43 PM GMT

I'm a penny wise, pound foolish type of person. Though I wouldn't worry much about gas costs for an overnight trip with a van full of friends/family, I have to admit that last season gas costs were something I thought about before a couple of day trips, particularly if going solo or just bringing my moneyless teenage son with me. Part of my motivation for local spring skiing this year was that reduced lift prices were going to offset the price of gas to get to slopes.
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Posted: May 06, 2007 - 9:43 PM GMT
Edited: May 06, 2007 - 9:46 PM GMT

Quote:
The price at the pump has little to due with oil company profits but more to due with the price of crude, gasoline in the commodity markets, tension in the oil producing regions, our ability to refine the crude and good old supply and demand.

Agree with most of the other points in this post, photgf128, but not this particular point. I think the data indicate a very strong correlation between the price at the pump and oil company profits. I think that what you meant to say, however, is that the price at the pump is merely an indicator (or effect) and not a cause. On that I would agree.
songfta
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Posted: May 06, 2007 - 11:54 PM GMT

Quote:
The price at the pump has little to due with oil company profits but more to due with the price of crude, gasoline in the commodity markets, tension in the oil producing regions, our ability to refine the crude and good old supply and demand.


...and subsidies to keep prices so low. Just to complete the picture, the subsidies need to be considered, too.

Frankly, I'm a major proponent for gas prices increasing in the United States. I think it's the only way to effect full behavioral change on those who drive fuel-inefficient cars at less-than-optimal occupancy. Here in the DC area, I see tons of large SUVs, minivans and large cars (e.g. Crown Vics and the like) with a single driver in them, driving long distances and gumming up the roads and air. Meanwhile, most of these people could ride a bus, train, or bike to work and leave the car at home - or join with some co-workers in a carpool.

And if the prices are raised by taxes or tariffs, have that money go directly into infrastructure investment for mass transit and alternative energy sources.

But, in all fairness, what needs to happen is to have all of the subsidies currently in place (many of which are on top of other subsidies) re-evaluated and made into a sensible system. The redundancy right now is like adding more band-aids to a festering wound: it treats symptoms, but not the root cause for the confusion and craziness.

I'm fully willing to pay $5, $6 or more per gallon for regular unleaded. Yes, it may affect my trips to ski a little bit, but if the money is going to help improve the situation for everybody, then I'm happy to live with that trade-off. And my next car will likely be a smaller, more fuel-efficient model than my 4-door Subaru Legacy sedan.

Living in a city, I'm lucky that there's good mass transit available at my doorstep, and that I can bike for virtually all of my needs. The car gets moved only once per week, as street cleaning rules in my neighborhood force the issue.

For those who live in the suburbs and commute a good distance to and from work, it may be time to re-evaluate work options, habits, and the like. I've known a few brave folks who now have modified work schedules where they can work at home two days per week, and commute in for three. I know another who commutes 55 miles each way, 4 days per week, by bicycle. He's in good shape, and the epitome of health. And his boss loves the productivity, too.

But I'm getting carried away here. As you can tell, I've seen what it's like to be mostly car-free, and it's not nearly as scary as I once thought it would be.

Bottom line: skiing is in my blood, but I'm not willing to trash the environment to satisfy my desire for it.

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Posted: May 07, 2007 - 2:51 AM GMT
Edited: May 07, 2007 - 3:07 AM GMT

This past week is a perfect example of the price of crude going down all week but the price at the pump keeps rising. If you watch the commodity markets you would see the price of the commodity "unleaded gaseline(ryob)" still rising. The current problem is that there is question if we will have enough supply to make it thru the summer.

Song mentions taxes, the price also depends on where you live as local, state and federal taxes make up large part of the price at the pump.

The prices should flatten out soon as we get into the summer driving season if inventories don't go down to fast. While the price at the pump effects many of us there seems to be plenty of people, not so much as evidenced by all the big SUVs and pickups passing me going 80mph on I89 the other day.

Oil companies benefit from the high prices but do not directy effect the prices at the pump was my point. . It's the futures market that determine their part of the price.

I feel confident our dependence on oil will be reduced and will be replaced over time with alternative energy. Not because of the price but because of the environment. The big companies are finally seeing the light and the idea of "going green" is becoming the new way to do business.




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