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Fisher/Tyrolia FR-17 Bindings

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rstuthill
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Posted: Dec 08, 2006 - 3:12 AM GMT

Anyone here know how to move the heel forward and aft? I see a couple of obvious choices, but ... any tricks I should know about setting the forward thrust on the boot after I have moved the heel?

I notice that the heel does not seem to have a DIN adjustment like Atomic 412's or 614's. Should I be aware of any DIN adjustment that does not appear obvious on the heel piece?

(You may have figured out that when I went to a plug boot this Fall that I went down in size. And no, taking them to a shop would be cheating.)
goldsbar
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Posted: Dec 08, 2006 - 6:42 PM GMT

There should be a very obvious screw at the back of the binding. Tighten this screw. At least with Atomic bindings (I believe my Fischer/Tyrolia bindings were the same), the screw should be even with the surrounding binding (i.e not sticking out or sunk in) when the boot is engaged in the binding. Do the adjustment without the boot in the binding, though. Not sure how much this will get you as it's supposed to be the micro adjustment after you mount the bindings to the boot size.
moe
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Posted: Dec 08, 2006 - 8:58 PM GMT

for the fischer/tyrolia binding, adjustment is done from the center. there's a screw dead center in that binding. turn it and it'll loosen up the fore/aft adjustment and you can slide it into position. send me a pm if you need to.

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rstuthill
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Posted: Dec 22, 2006 - 2:36 AM GMT
Edited: Dec 22, 2006 - 2:37 AM GMT

In the interest of sharing information, here is how it turned out.

1. Loosened the connection between the heel and toe pieces via the locking screw that moe mentioned in the middle adjacent to a spring.

2. Pried up a small lever down low on the aft part of the heel unit with the blade of a large screwdriver. Just inserted the blade under the lever and twisted the screwdriver along its axis. This allowed forward and aft translation of the heel unit.

3. Snapped the small lever back into place when the the correct forward-aft position of the heel unit was achieved.

4. Tightened the connecting screw between the heel and toe unit. The spring at this junction controls the forward thrust on the boot.

5. Snapped the boot into the binding and checked that the heel DIN was still correct. Moe had clued me in offline that the heel unit had to be compressed down with the boot installed to do this. The DIN adjustment scale becomes visible/accessible when the heel unit is in the down position.

Note that the large screw at the aft of the heel unit does NOT adjust tension (as in Atomic) but rather adjusts DIN.
dirk109
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Posted: Dec 22, 2006 - 1:37 PM GMT

Thus is why binding companies make Tech’s take tests to prevent the shite show described above.
rstuthill
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Posted: Dec 22, 2006 - 7:05 PM GMT

Quote:
Thus is why binding companies make Tech’s take tests to prevent the shite show described above.

I beg your pardon? Why should I pay some flunkie $30 to do something when the information should be available to all in the form of directions in the binding box -- like Atomic does it? Not sure I understand your point, dirk.
dirk109
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Posted: Dec 22, 2006 - 10:26 PM GMT

rstuthill, Those directions are for Cirt. Shop employees. Every year, You hear about some guy mounting his own skis, Braking his leg, and suing the ski/binding company because there are directions in the box.
bondman
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Posted: Dec 23, 2006 - 8:34 PM GMT

rstuthill........ Do you know what the effect of the shorter sole lenght of your new "plug" boot has on your DIN setting? Many ski areas offer a free binding safety check. That way you won't have to pay the"flunkie" $30. and still get the benefit of his knowledge.

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rstuthill
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Posted: Dec 23, 2006 - 10:19 PM GMT

Properly adjusted for length, it should have no effect on DIN. All the binding cares about is the length of the sole. It turned out to be a "one click" adjustment for me. Been using them, they seem fine. Of course I have not fallen yet .... But I am not one of these guys who really cranks them down very tight despite the fact that I ski pretty fast and hard. I'm 6-0, 225, and I have them set at 9.

And, btw, the boots make a huge difference in case anyone is interested. I was in four year old Atomic 10.55's which were one size smaller than my street shoes to begin with and pretty stiff too. I went another size down in the Nordicas and the difference in the precision of my skiing is amazing. Slightly uncomfortable, but really improves your skiing.

Thanks for tip on the safety check.
dirk109
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Posted: Dec 23, 2006 - 10:41 PM GMT
Edited: Dec 23, 2006 - 10:42 PM GMT


rstuthill
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Posted: Dec 24, 2006 - 1:55 AM GMT

My apologies if I am talking over your head, dirk.
bondman
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Posted: Dec 24, 2006 - 4:56 AM GMT

Properly adjusted for length, it should have no effect on DIN. All the binding cares about is the length of the sole



Are these statements contradictory?

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bondman
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Posted: Dec 24, 2006 - 5:11 PM GMT

Sole length absolutly has an effect on DIN setting. I am not a binding mechanic but I know there are certain jobs left to the pros. (fuel injection repair, chimney sweeping, ski teaching etc.) What other nuances are you unaware of? Not that knowing that there is a relationship between sole length and DIN setting is a nuance. Its kind of Bindings 101. What a dumb reason to break a leg.

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lift1
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Posted: Dec 24, 2006 - 10:25 PM GMT

To clairify..............
Boot sole length is used in the equation to determine DIN
A boot "snaped" into the binding cannot in its self change the DIN setting
ie: if a binding is set to properly accept a 325 mm boot, resetting the binding heel piece to accept a 315 mm boot, but inserting the 325 mm boot instead (if it fit) the DIN indicator would not move.
rstuthill
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Posted: Dec 25, 2006 - 2:41 AM GMT

Quote:
Boot sole length is used in the equation to determine DIN.

I think you meant to say: Boot sole length is used in the equation to determine the recommended DIN setting for the individual.

DIN itself is simply an integer setting for the device which correlates to a standard lateral load or torque required to make the mechanism release. Techs don't compute DIN, they compute the recommended DIN setting.

Since the sole length changed by only a very very small amount in my case, I chose to ignore sole length effect and left the DIN setting constant.

Happy to continue the discussion offline to conserve the public bandwidth.
goldsbar
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Posted: Dec 26, 2006 - 2:18 PM GMT

There are charts that show the recommended DIN settings per skier ability, weight & sole length. Unless you're talking a substantial size change, it's not going to matter.

I can buy the argument that you should't mount your own bindings if drilling is involved or at least accept the risk. Otherwise, go for it. Put the ski on the rug and give a good sharp twist of the boot - there's your binding test (maybe that's just a little troll bait but it will tell you if the bindings will release ).

moe
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Posted: Dec 26, 2006 - 2:47 PM GMT

Quote:
I can buy the argument that you should't mount your own bindings if drilling is involved or at least accept the risk. Otherwise, go for it. Put the ski on the rug and give a good sharp twist of the boot - there's your binding test (maybe that's just a little troll bait but it will tell you if the bindings will release ).


I fully agree. If I followed the recommended DIN settings, I would be set at 7... which would cause me to prerelease standing still. In fact, I can easily step out on anything less than 9, so for free skiing, I set myself at 10, where I know I'll come out if I twist, but I'll stay in when I apply torque to the toe. On my race skis, I set myself at 15, because there has been a couple situations when I've popped out at 14 at high speed.


__________
Do not drink Pepsi, do not eat M&M's, because they are the tools of Babylon.
rstuthill
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Posted: Dec 26, 2006 - 3:42 PM GMT

Suffice it to say that proper DIN setting is a pretty imprecise science. I too would be at about a DIN 7 going by the charts. In fact, that is where the shop that mounted the binding originally insisted that it go out their door set at.

The whole thing is related to litigation and the shops and binding manufacturers know that they almost never get lawsuits from folks whose bindings release prematurely. Almost all the lawsuits come from situations where the bindings did not release or released under too much load. So they err on the side of lower DIN.

The difference between me set at DIN 9 and moe at 14 is that he races at a considerably higher level than me and he is young and I am not (although I am not exactly "old" ).

Oh, and btw, I am guessing that shorter sole length should mean higher allowable DIN which would produce approximately constant torque at release compared to longer sole length. Is that correct?
penaca23
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Posted: Jan 02, 2007 - 7:53 PM GMT

Bondman: Do you know if they offer this free binding checking service anywhere in Park City Utah? Thanks
dirk109
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Posted: Jan 02, 2007 - 8:52 PM GMT

Moe, Are you a 40 point skier?

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