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Changes at Waterville

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Bkroon9175
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Posted: Dec 04, 2006 - 5:34 PM GMT

I read a short article last night in the local Waterville Valley monthly newsletter and there was a short article in the newsletter from the ski resort's general manager. He stated that the chair at Snow's Mountain would be moved in two years to the ski mountain to the right (as you ride up) of the North Side Double chair. It is intended to access the true top of Mt. Tecumseh and increase skier terrain. It will be in the bowl to the right of the north side double. It is the first time I've heard someone from the ski resort mention any expansion in a lon g time....................

I thought it was interesting.
nelsap
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Posted: Dec 04, 2006 - 5:52 PM GMT

Definitely interesting...they still maintain that lift for hiking/mtn biking, I wonder if that will end now over there...

Jeremy

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MissDaEast
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Posted: Dec 04, 2006 - 5:58 PM GMT

I think that they started building out expen$ive lots over there. Perhaps they were offered a lot of $$$ for the lift line lot.
sully
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Posted: Dec 04, 2006 - 7:05 PM GMT

Finally, WV definetly needs this expansion but, what will happen over at Snows Mt.


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eeyore
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Posted: Dec 04, 2006 - 7:26 PM GMT

So I popped open Goggle to see where you guys were talking about and what the terrain looked like. I have not been back to Waterville since they chopped the Quad from very top of the mtn.

What are the dots located to south west of Waterville Valley? Are these the NH version crop circles in very own White Mtn National Forest?

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Waterville+Valley,+NH&ie=UTF8&z=13&ll=43.948091,-71.508121&spn=0.060683,0.172005&t=h&om=1
telemark
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Posted: Dec 04, 2006 - 8:47 PM GMT

Quote:
Definitely interesting...they still maintain that lift for hiking/mtn biking, I wonder if that will end now over there...

Have they been running that lift in the past few years? I thought they had stopped that.

-dave-
rocket21
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Posted: Dec 04, 2006 - 11:46 PM GMT

Why in the world would they want to reuse that old thing?

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Jonni
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Posted: Dec 05, 2006 - 4:21 AM GMT

My only guess for that would be to save money in the long run in the expansion. Knowing the way the government and environmentalists work, the topic of expansion will be a long and involved expensive process, and this may be a way to save some money for the resort. The only thing that I question beyond that is that if the company is going to spend the money to apply for expansion, by going through all the right channels, wouldn't it be best just to spend the additional million or so dollars to put in a FGQ or FGT? Even if they bought used, wouldn't it still be a better investment?

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TimberLeaf
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Posted: Dec 05, 2006 - 4:31 AM GMT

Finally, a topic that I know something (not much, but something) about.

I ride that northside chair a lot on busy days. Slower than slow, but protected from the wind and rarely a line. The Mt Tecumseh trail runs off to skier's left there. We hiked it during the most pathetic Thanksgiving weekend in recent memory 2 weeks ago.

This plan just doesn't add up to me. That lift is pretty small and there
is a LOT of ground to cover to get up to the peak on that side. Lots of people look at that terrain from the lift and wonder about it, but it seems to me like it would be a LOT of work to integrate it into the ski area. Not impossible, but why go to all that effort only to serve it with a klunky old thing like that?

Opening up the bowl would be the crown jewel of that area IMO. Doing it with that lift just seems a little silly to me.

Was this the April 1st edition of the newsletter by any chance?
obienick
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Posted: Dec 05, 2006 - 3:45 PM GMT
Edited: Dec 05, 2006 - 3:46 PM GMT

Quote:
What are the dots located to south west of Waterville Valley? Are these the NH version crop circles in very own White Mtn National Forest?

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Waterville+Valley,+NH&ie=UTF8&z=13&ll=43.948091,-71.508121&spn=0.060683,0.172005&t=h&om=1


I think they are from logging. There are also those dots south of the xc area, and the dots are connected with a road/trail of some sort. If I remember correctly, most of the village section of the xc area was closed for a good chunk of a season a few years ago for logging.
MissDaEast
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Posted: Dec 05, 2006 - 4:41 PM GMT
Edited: Dec 05, 2006 - 4:44 PM GMT

That would have been my guess too. There is a logging road that heads over to Sandwich.
stomachdoc
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Posted: Dec 05, 2006 - 5:50 PM GMT

It is my understanding that WV/Booth Creek has permits from the National Forest to build trails on the "Tecumseh Bowl"--the area that was referenced above--and also the small peak to the left of Stillness/Upper Valley Run. The location and permits of the additional snowmaking pond had been up in the air, however. The Snow's Mountain property (the part that does not have mega-Houses on it) has just been purchased by the Waterville Valley Academy/BBTS group. WV/Booth Creek has retained rights in the purchase to operate the lift for Mountain Biking/Hiking for a finite period of time (a couple of years, I think).

All of us who ski WV would love to see that terrain opened, it looks very interesting with some nice pitch. I'd be shocked, however, to see Booth Creek pour a lot of $$$ into something like that, because there is no developable real estate that would go along with the investment. Perhaps recycling that lift is a way to do it, at least initially, without a ton of $$$.
Bkroon9175
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Posted: Dec 05, 2006 - 5:59 PM GMT

I agree that the use of that lift it that area is a little wierd. I also agree that it would be done to open more terrain and save $$$$. Time will tell as there have been lots of plans at WV in the past.

Also I thought that the town didn't approve the land use for the Academy and that the sale isn't finalized yet......I know there is some sort of concern in the community.
stomachdoc
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Posted: Dec 05, 2006 - 6:38 PM GMT

Yes, that's right. The town did not approve the expansion of WVA/BBTS with the involved construction of a dormitory building on that land, but the sale of the land still went through. (I believe).
summitchallenger
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Posted: Dec 06, 2006 - 12:30 AM GMT

Quote:
Finally, a topic that I know something (not much, but something) about.

I ride that northside chair a lot on busy days. Slower than slow, but protected from the wind and rarely a line. The Mt Tecumseh trail runs off to skier's left there. We hiked it during the most pathetic Thanksgiving weekend in recent memory 2 weeks ago.

This plan just doesn't add up to me. That lift is pretty small and there
is a LOT of ground to cover to get up to the peak on that side. Lots of people look at that terrain from the lift and wonder about it, but it seems to me like it would be a LOT of work to integrate it into the ski area. Not impossible, but why go to all that effort only to serve it with a klunky old thing like that?

Opening up the bowl would be the crown jewel of that area IMO. Doing it with that lift just seems a little silly to me.

Was this the April 1st edition of the newsletter by any chance?



You've echoed my comments. However, Stomachdoc, who skis WV and has a lot of credibility seems to think otherwise.

My thoughts are that this seems like a stretch because:

(a) Age of the lift
(b) The type of lift selected does not match the needs (length, etc)
(c) This area is WMNF land and hits a 4,000 foot peak to boot. The permitting process will take FOREVER.
(d) That area is QUITE STEEP and I wonder if it would be difficult to get ski terrain opened.
skierpilot
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Posted: Dec 06, 2006 - 12:59 AM GMT

My guess on this might be money. It may be somewhat cheaper to do a total overhall of the lift as compared to the cost of purchasing a new fixed grip double of the same length. It is common to see 50 year old industrial machinery that has been overhalled many times. For starters, they would not have to pay for the freight costs of a new chair. I have never skied the mountain, so I don't know how this lift would fit into that area. How long is this old lift?
stomachdoc
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Posted: Dec 06, 2006 - 3:10 AM GMT

I think it all depends where they would cut the trails. Years ago, the current HS quad went all the way to the top of "High Country" but, because of frequent wind holds, the quad was shortened to its current terminus. The supports for the summit terminus are still present to your left as you get off of the high country double. When the trails were cut on "High Country" so many trees were removed that it is essentially impossible to keep snow up there because of the wind; not a mistake they will make again, I would hope.

I'll ask around over the next couple of weeks to get more info; it's nice to hear there is at least some interest in expansion despite the lack of building lots!
obienick
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Posted: Dec 06, 2006 - 8:19 AM GMT
Edited: Dec 06, 2006 - 8:22 AM GMT

http://www.skilifts.org/install_na1974.htm

It is 2859' long and has a vertical of 584'.

For all you lift nuts, it looks to be the third to last Stadeli lift in the US.
mapnut
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Posted: Dec 06, 2006 - 2:49 PM GMT

A 2859' long lift could access 1,000 vertical feet in that summit bowl (about like the Sunnyside lift). Would they have to give it a more powerful motor to serve that much vertical?

Having just a double chair might enable them to open some expert trails with natural snow, since it wouldn't get skied off too fast. I agree with Timberleaf that it would be hard to connect that area to the existing, not that it would be hard to ski down to, but hard to ski out of - would require a long sidehill trail to be built in a steep-sided gully. Naturally I have a sketch of my version of this expansion in my file.
Jonni
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Posted: Dec 06, 2006 - 4:04 PM GMT

Looking at the Google Earth representation of the terrain, I'm not so sure it's that steep. (Unless Google Earth is off, which it has been in the past). Now I'm not sure where they would put the lift based on the information so far, as we really aren't too sure, but here's some figures and images:

The images below show a relatively logical location for the lift showing it's approximate length of 2859'. If it was placed in the location that the line in the picture then it would have about 1110' of vertical assuming it put in this location. I have also included different views of this terrain from different angles. The only other option that I can think of would be if the lift started from further into the valley (Image #4) and went to the top of the true summit. This would result in a shorter lift with a smaller vertical (988' but would result in a similar pitch in the trails.

This is all just what I have figured from the discussion that we've had already on the subject. I'm not even sure if this is the correct face that we are even talking about.

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Fall Line n. Imaginary line following the most direct path down a slope that skiers continuously traverse on a run, often stopping at other invisible slope features along the way like the Tumble Lane, the Stagger Path and the Topple Zone.

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