2016-2017 World Cup

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Comments

  • whygimfwhygimf novice
    Posts: 5
    The pic above just doesn't feel like it was taken on Superstar.
  • TomWhiteTomWhite advanced
    Posts: 357
    whygimf said:

    The pic above just doesn't feel like it was taken on Superstar.

    Yes that's the "level" part of Superstar where they have the May Day races. Killington has a video of two red Piston Bullies (like this) grooming from the upper third of the trail.
  • newpylongnewpylong advanced
    edited November 2016 Posts: 453

    I'm glad to see that Killington is very likely to make muster for the WC event.  From a purely fiscal POV,  will the revenues generated by the WC offset the huge cost that Killington has put into it - and does anybody know how much they have put into snowmaking, overtime, grooming, etc.?

    I will spitball it using my energy calculator.

    Assuming:

    12 IR IQ HP1600s (which they usually lease) - they get 20 GPH
    Running for 8 hours X 14 days, leased for 60 days.
    $2/gallon off road diesel

    Total cost to run each compressor for that time period including lease is $10K
    X 12 = $120,000 just for air

    Assuming:

    4 X 1000 GPM electric vertical water pumps (they said they were running about 3600 GPM on Superstar max)
    278 amps/480 volts
    $.10 KwH utility rate
    2/3 multiplier for supply vs distribution

    Total cost to run each pump for that time period is $2500
    X 4 = $10,000 for water

    Assuming:

    2 X PistenBully 400
    8 hours each for 7 days
    5 GPH
    $2/gallon off road diesel

    $2240 in total fuel costs

    Assuming:

    4 snowmakers and pump operators for 112 hours each
    2 groomers for 56 hours each
    $12/hr for both

    Total manpower: $6720

    Assuming

    Superstar chair running for snowmakers for 56 hours (half of online snowmaking time)
    800 HP
    $.10 KwH utility rate

    $3800 to run chair

    Ballpark cost of snow operations for World Cup $142,000  Could be more could be less.



  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 563
    Also factor in the cost of housing and feeding all racers, teams and staff....very expensive event. Hope it happens!
  • slathamslatham intermediate
    Posts: 86

    I'm glad to see that Killington is very likely to make muster for the WC event.  From a purely fiscal POV,  will the revenues generated by the WC offset the huge cost that Killington has put into it - and does anybody know how much they have put into snowmaking, overtime, grooming, etc.?

    My understanding is that the US Ski Racing "authorities" paid for increased snowmaking capacity so the K could blast SS without jeopardizing their ability to have terrain open for the public.
  • obienickobienick expert
    edited November 2016 Posts: 791
    The lift would not be running anywhere near its hp rating for shuttling the handful of snow makers up.
  • obienickobienick expert
    Posts: 791
    Also for budgeting purposes to Killington, I don't think they care about water or labor or groomer costs. All of that is needed to get the trail open anyways. Instead of December, they've just moved those costs up a few weeks.
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 563
    FIS snow check gave thumbs up today...it's on
  • Posts: 1,798

    Stands are being set up at the base of Superstar.

    http://www.killington.com/site/mountain/webcam/superstar.html

    - Sam
  • newpylongnewpylong advanced
    Posts: 453
    obienick said:

    Also for budgeting purposes to Killington, I don't think they care about water or labor or groomer costs. All of that is needed to get the trail open anyways. Instead of December, they've just moved those costs up a few weeks.

    Nope. They are using a tremendous amount of energy to get race depth in the low end of marginal conditions. When the wet bulb is lower they could put that many acr/ft on the hill in a fraction of the time at a fraction of the cost.
  • newpylongnewpylong advanced
    Posts: 453
    obienick said:

    The lift would not be running anywhere near its hp rating for shuttling the handful of snow makers up.

    So cut the HP in half, the lift is a minuscule portion of the total cost. Like I said it was spit balled, with actual data the entire thing could be made more accurate.


  • mtsnow123mtsnow123 advanced
    edited November 2016 Posts: 277
    Great SAM article: http://saminfo.com/component/k2/item/80-the-east-wins-a-world-cup

    "Solimano expects that $250,000 in added snowmaking costs alone could be necessary."
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,554
    newpylong said:

    I'm glad to see that Killington is very likely to make muster for the WC event.  From a purely fiscal POV,  will the revenues generated by the WC offset the huge cost that Killington has put into it - and does anybody know how much they have put into snowmaking, overtime, grooming, etc.?

    I will spitball it using my energy calculator.

    Assuming:

    12 IR IQ HP1600s (which they usually lease) - they get 20 GPH
    Running for 8 hours X 14 days, leased for 60 days.
    $2/gallon off road diesel

    Total cost to run each compressor for that time period including lease is $10K
    X 12 = $120,000 just for air

    Assuming:

    4 X 1000 GPM electric vertical water pumps (they said they were running about 3600 GPM on Superstar max)
    278 amps/480 volts
    $.10 KwH utility rate
    2/3 multiplier for supply vs distribution

    Total cost to run each pump for that time period is $2500
    X 4 = $10,000 for water

    Assuming:

    2 X PistenBully 400
    8 hours each for 7 days
    5 GPH
    $2/gallon off road diesel

    $2240 in total fuel costs

    Assuming:

    4 snowmakers and pump operators for 112 hours each
    2 groomers for 56 hours each
    $12/hr for both

    Total manpower: $6720

    Assuming

    Superstar chair running for snowmakers for 56 hours (half of online snowmaking time)
    800 HP
    $.10 KwH utility rate

    $3800 to run chair

    Ballpark cost of snow operations for World Cup $142,000  Could be more could be less.



    Nice shot at coming up with some numbers.  I suspect you low-balled, based on the one number I do know.

    Piston Bullies need a lot of maintenance based primarily on hours of operation.  My experts tell me that it cost between $150 and $200 per hour to run, including fuel, operator, mainntenance and depreciation.
  • joshua_segaljoshua_segal expert
    Posts: 1,554
    FYI: Killington just posted on their FB page that they have been green-lighted for the World Cup Event.
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    Posts: 563
    Plug just pulled on Birds of Prey at Beaver Creek....wow...Killington is the only game in town, unless Lake Louise can get in shape for the men
  • RemskiRemski advanced
    Posts: 295
    TomWhite said:

    whygimf said:

    The pic above just doesn't feel like it was taken on Superstar.

    Yes that's the "level" part of Superstar where they have the May Day races. Killington has a video of two red Piston Bullies (like this) grooming from the upper third of the trail.
    TomWhite said:

    whygimf said:

    The pic above just doesn't feel like it was taken on Superstar.

    Yes that's the "level" part of Superstar where they have the May Day races. Killington has a video of two red Piston Bullies (like this) grooming from the upper third of the trail.
    TomWhite said:

    whygimf said:

    The pic above just doesn't feel like it was taken on Superstar.

    Yes that's the "level" part of Superstar where they have the May Day races. Killington has a video of two red Piston Bullies (like this) grooming from the upper third of the trail.
    TomWhite said:

    whygimf said:

    The pic above just doesn't feel like it was taken on Superstar.

    Yes that's the "level" part of Superstar where they have the May Day races. Killington has a video of two red Piston Bullies (like this) grooming from the upper third of the trail.

  • sugarloafsugarloaf expert
    edited November 2016 Posts: 743
    On a side note DIA reached 80F yesterday, tying the record for the warmest temperature ever in Denver for November. This ain't helping the resort's in Colorado that's for sure. I've seen modeling returning warm and dry weather to Colorado next week.

    Ski Conditions Report: A detailed report describing the snow conditions on the mountain the day of your visit. Skiers should become familiar with the following snow surface descriptions: Ice: Packed Powder, Slush: Packed Powder, Frozen Granular: Packed Powder , Packed Powder - A thin covering of snow over bare earth.

  • RemskiRemski advanced
    Posts: 295
    That is definitely not Superstar! For one thing their isn't any chair lift and also the trail has a right turn at the top of the picture. It's either Skylark or Bittersweet because they had to supply a trail for race practice because they aren't allowed to use Superstar for practice.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 1,798
    It looks like Superstar to me. Those birch trees correspond with the ones in this photo I took in May and that "curve" is just a side trail coming in.
    - Sam
  • Posts: 1,798
    image
    - Sam
    image.jpeg
    1224 x 816 - 214K
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    edited November 2016 Posts: 956

    Plug just pulled on Birds of Prey at Beaver Creek....wow...Killington is the only game in town, unless Lake Louise can get in shape for the men

    my understanding is Lake Louise was killed yesterday, Kmart stands alone
  • obienickobienick expert
    edited November 2016 Posts: 791
    Only the Men's Lake Louise was cancelled. Ladies' snow control is Friday

    But it's 99.9999999% cancelled.

    Hope that doesn't mean fewer racers come over the pond.
  • lotsoskiinglotsoskiing expert
    edited November 2016 Posts: 563
    Yep, I had it backwards. Won't affect the racers that will be at Killington. Many are in Colorado and will stop on the way as planned. Maybe lose a few all-around' skiers who do all disciplines, but the tech skiers will be here.
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    edited November 2016 Posts: 956
    obienick said:

    Only the Men's Lake Louise was cancelled. Ladies' snow control is Friday

    But it's 99.9999999% cancelled.

    Hope that doesn't mean fewer racers come over the pond.

    Ah! didn't know it was just the men. Aside from Kmart's unquestionable success, North American ski season season is off to a shaky start
  • RemskiRemski advanced
    Posts: 295
    Ya your right that is SS Looking down hill.
  • rickbolgerrickbolger expert
    Posts: 956
    Lake Louise snow control postponed until noon monday
  • marcskimarcski advanced
    edited November 2016 Posts: 199
    image


    Superstar looked awesome. I talked to lots of people working the course and the venue. It is going to be a crazy madhouse there and one hell of a good time.
  • djspookmandjspookman advanced
    Posts: 291
    Yahoo! Can't wait for Saturday! That looks great!
  • marcskimarcski advanced
    Posts: 199
    It really did look great. I also met and spoke with former US Olympian Leslie Leete Smith, Pres Smith's daughter who, along with other former US Olympian and WC skiers will be on hand for this weekend's races. The last WC race in VT. was 1978 at Stratton and Leslie showed me a photo of her in action in that race. She also showed me some old photos of her as a toddler on skis in front of the Killington base lodge with her dad. It was a very cool day.
  • obienickobienick expert
    Posts: 791
    Lake Louise passed, btw. Birds of Prey has been moved to Val-d'Isère.  Val-d'Isère now has 8 races over 3 consecutive weekends.

    I'm psyched. I'll be at the SL races on Sunday.
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