Lifts for State Owned Areas in NY

ropeways.net | Home | 2018-10-31
New York State Goes Lift Shopping

Only a handful of ski mountains in the United States are government owned and operated. The largest public ski outfit by far is New York’s Olympic Regional Development Authority, which runs Belleayre, Gore Mountain, Whiteface and the Olympic Ski Jumping Complex at Lake Placid. All but one of these properties are likely to see new lifts in 2019. Because the mountains are funded in part by taxpayers, potential lift projects are subject to competitive procurement. Over the last month, the Authority has opened requests for proposals for a new high speed quad at Gore Mountain, a quad chair at Whiteface and a surprise gondola at the ski jump.

Back on September 17th, ORDA opened bidding for a chairlift replacement project at Gore Mountain. “Gore Mountain Ski Resort will be replacing their existing triple chair lift with a high speed detachable quad chair lift,” notes the New York State Contract Reporter. “This would be a turnkey project where the winning bidder would provide all materials, labor and equipment to build and install the lift.” This is almost certainly the approved upgrade of Hudson, a 2010 Partek build. Bids were due last Tuesday and the term is 12 months. Leitner-Poma built the last three detachable lifts at Gore, so I say it is their contract to lose.

Next up is an RFP for a new Bear Den quad at Whiteface, the largest ski mountain in the east by vertical. The current Riblet triple in the Bear Den base area will become one of many late model Riblet lifts to be replaced recently. I assume this one will be fixed grip but the contract reporter website does not specify. Bids are due on Monday, November 26th. Doppelmayr would seem to have the edge at Whiteface, having built the mountain’s three newest lifts.

Here’s where it gets more interesting. The state also began soliciting bids last week for a new gondola at the Lake Placid Olympic Ski Jumping Complex. Empire State government has a penchant for gondolas, having built them at Gore Mountain and Whiteface in 1999 and Belleayre in 2017. New York Governor Andrew Cuomo proposed erecting a $15 million gondola at the State Fair in 2017, a plan which was eventually cancelled due to intense public criticism. The state also owns the Roosevelt Island Tram, built and operated by Leitner-Poma.

The ski jump gondola will be short. The existing chairlift at the 1980 Olympic venue is quite popular despite rising only 217 feet. “The Olympic Jumping Complex in Lake Placid, New York is planning on installing a Gondola at their facility,” is all the New York State Contract Reporter notes. A pulse gondola might make sense but, then again, money doesn’t seem to be much of an issue for New York State.

Article by Peter Landsman
http://www.liftblog.com

Comments

  • well that's interesting! thanks for posting

  • I still can't wrap my head around them wanting to change out the Hudson Chair at Gore. Only thought is it's being driven by the residential component of the Ski Bowl.
    You ski because even if you don't do it well, it's still a blast....
  • At least you can get some fast runs in while you're down at the Hudson Chair -it takes forever to get there if you start from the main lodge. Plus they are giving it more vertical and more trails so it should be a nice complex. And then the Hudson Chair can go replace High Peaks.
  • Do you have a link by any chance to the proposed full build out of trails at the Ski Bowl with this new lift?
  • https://liftblog.com/
    Then page down to Oct. 22. There may be another source but this is where I (and ropeways.net) got it.
  • edited October 31
    Here's Gore's master plan. Page 4 is what you are looking for.

    If that comes to fruition, I'd be hard pressed not to get a season pass. But, I'm not a big fan of widening the trails on the North Chair - there's no need to, they are rarely that busy. And a few of the Straightbrook trails don't need to be widened much either, but they would have to due to capacity.
  • Thank you both.
  • I'm sorry but as a NYS taxpayer I'd be P O'd to have to pay exhorbitant taxes toward something I have no interest in.( skiing)
    From what I gather NY and NH are the 2 leading states to use taxpayer funds for ski areas.

    Whiteface , Gore , and BELL have no competition

    They talk about separation of Church and state but the Feds should leave skiing to private organizations.

    They screwed the Lanes out of prospective Bearpen goldmine and are screwing the little private ski area cause they gotta pay the mob

    I agree w Rocket when he yaks about Cannon and Sunnapee it just ain't a fair playing field.
  • I know where your coming from Cisco, but playing the role of contrarian-there are a lot of state properties that compete with privately owned ones. Every state run campground, beach, state park, snack bar, etc could fall into that category. For example, a state run campground competes against a KOA one.

    It's complicated in NY because of the Adirondack Park and the constitution amendments that are required for state development within it. Most of the "big" mountains in NY are on state land, and if the state didn't develop them, there'd be almost no "big mountain" skiing in the state, aside from Windham or Hunter.

    There is a good argument though that the smaller areas don't get bailed out by the state and don't have unlimited resources for development. That is very true.
  • I guess it started when my dads farm was"taken" from him with eminent domain

    Wasted tax payer money with "no representation ".

    Remember that one?
  • NELSAP said:

    At least you can get some fast runs in while you're down at the Hudson Chair -it takes forever to get there if you start from the main lodge. Plus they are giving it more vertical and more trails so it should be a nice complex. And then the Hudson Chair can go replace High Peaks.

    If it were an old lift they were looking to replace, sure. This Partek is from 2010. Not much more in vertical and trails. New line to cut, new terminal & tower foundations. Reclassification of a wild forest area. Why not upgrade the existing to a high speed and be done with it?
    You ski because even if you don't do it well, it's still a blast....
  • ciscokid said:

    I'm sorry but as a NYS taxpayer I'd be P O'd to have to pay exhorbitant taxes toward something I have no interest in.( skiing)

    From what I gather NY and NH are the 2 leading states to use taxpayer funds for ski areas.

    This is a silly point. Every state pays for things that many people do not use or like.
    ciscokid said:




    Whiteface , Gore , and BELL have no competition


    Belleayre directly competes with Hunter, Windham, and Plattekill.
    Whiteface directly competes with northern VT
    Gore directly competes with southern VT - specifically from Mt Snow to Okemo
    ciscokid said:


    They talk about separation of Church and state but the Feds should leave skiing to private organizations.

    While I agree with this, decisions where made generations ago that are very difficult to change. Should NYS avoid updating the ski areas? They do provide jobs in areas that lack jobs.
    ciscokid said:




    They screwed the Lanes out of prospective Bearpen goldmine and are screwing the little private ski area cause they gotta pay the mob



    I agree w Rocket when he yaks about Cannon and Sunnapee it just ain't a fair playing field.

    Criminals screwed the Lanes out of Bearpen.

    Maybe 50 years ago some smaller ski areas got screwed, although the lack of snowmaking and chairlifts were bigger factors. Who is getting screwed by NYS today? Hunter? Windham? They are bigger and better and more valuable than ever. Platty is still successfully operating 25 years after Laz bought the place.

    I do not agree with what ORDA does to market the ski areas. However, they have to operate and maintain the areas to today's standards. Replacing an 8 year old chair is stupid, but it has more to do with state finances of cash flow than bad decision making.
  • edited November 1
    The far left lift install for one single trail is also highly questionable, especially in conjunction with extending the current day Sunway. Blank check mentality.
  • newpylong said:

    The far left lift install for one single trail is also highly questionable, especially in conjunction with extending the current day Sunway. Blank check mentality.

    I have been skiing Gore since ORDA took over in the early 1980s. It is not a blank check mentality, it is more about putting the best plan forward. Most of the time the plan is not fulfilled and changed to something cheaper. The plans are always delayed, in some cases, by decades. I saw versions of these plans in 1987.


  • ciscokid said:




    Whiteface , Gore , and BELL have no competition


    Belleayre directly competes with Hunter, Windham, and Plattekill.
    Whiteface directly competes with northern VT
    Gore directly competes with southern VT - specifically from Mt Snow to Okemo

    I disagree, Z. While the State run ski areas may "compete" with the private ones, they are clearly not playing on a level field. If a private ski area operates in the red for a few years, they go out of business. If the State run ski areas operate in the red, they keep opening for business as usual with taxpayers footing the bill.

  • marcski said:


    I disagree, Z. While the State run ski areas may "compete" with the private ones, they are clearly not playing on a level field. If a private ski area operates in the red for a few years, they go out of business. If the State run ski areas operate in the red, they keep opening for business as usual with taxpayers footing the bill.

    The part about operating in the red may be true and but it is irrelevant. NYS owns these ski areas and that will never change (at least not in our lifetimes). Do you think NYS should do nothing to update and modernize the 3 areas? They still are valuable NYS assets and they do help provide jobs where jobs are hard to come by.





  • The part about operating in the red may be true and but it is irrelevant. NYS owns these ski areas and that will never change (at least not in our lifetimes). Do you think NYS should do nothing to update and modernize the 3 areas? They still are valuable NYS assets and they do help provide jobs where jobs are hard to come by.



    I think they could have spent 1m on a new lodge. And then spent the other 8.1m on low to no interest loans to various true local businesses so they can expand and grow and make more real F/T jobs. That would have been a better way to still keep the NYS assets in good, modern, working repair, while spending our tax dollars wisely.
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